How important are tyres

OK silly newbie question time again.

I posted a question a while back about the best soft roader for snow. To
recap I live in rural Aberdeenshire and am getting fed up with having to dig
the car out after getting stuck in the snow. happens at least a couple of
times a year. But I'm not interested in real offroad and drive around 20,000
miles on tarmac each year. So I'm thinking diesel (for the economy)
soft-roader (for extra traction and clearance). Currently it seems to be
between the Xtrail and the Rav4. The Xtrail is the sensible option. Supposed
to have better off road ability than the Rav. More space, more bells and
whistles. But (to me) it looks like an oversized tonka toy. So I'm leaning
towards the Rav. But if I buy that and end up stuck in a snowbank as Xtrails
cruise by I'm going to be well ****ed.

So simple question. Would a Rav4 with decent snow tyres perform as well (or
better) thah an Xtrail with stock tyres? In other words, are the differences
in offroad ability of soft roaders significant or are they actually less
than the differences between different sets of tyres (i.e. I can stop
worrying about them).

Cheers,

Andy

hello if u stuck a very good set of snow tyres on then it will be hell of a
lot better iam sure if u stuck a set on a 2CV( not being horibble to 2cv
owners) it would drive better than a Xtrail.
I think i said last time it is VERY MUCH ALL ABOUT TYRES, i come across this
all the time when 4x4ing i run goodyear MTR's it would not be a fair to
compaire then to lets say some stock vitara wheels as they r made for
different jobs. What u should decided is what 4x4 u want as the tyres r not
part of the truck IF you know what i mean

hope this helps

james

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> OK silly newbie question time again.
>
> I posted a question a while back about the best soft roader for snow. To
> recap I live in rural Aberdeenshire and am getting fed up with having to
dig
> the car out after getting stuck in the snow. happens at least a couple of
> times a year. But I'm not interested in real offroad and drive around
20,000
> miles on tarmac each year. So I'm thinking diesel (for the economy)
> soft-roader (for extra traction and clearance). Currently it seems to be
> between the Xtrail and the Rav4. The Xtrail is the sensible option.
Supposed
> to have better off road ability than the Rav. More space, more bells and
> whistles. But (to me) it looks like an oversized tonka toy. So I'm leaning
> towards the Rav. But if I buy that and end up stuck in a snowbank as
Xtrails
> cruise by I'm going to be well ****ed.
>
> So simple question. Would a Rav4 with decent snow tyres perform as well
(or
> better) thah an Xtrail with stock tyres? In other words, are the
differences
> in offroad ability of soft roaders significant or are they actually less
> than the differences between different sets of tyres (i.e. I can stop
> worrying about them).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andy

[email protected] posted ...

> So simple question. Would a Rav4 with decent snow tyres perform as
> well (or better) thah an Xtrail with stock tyres?

Not a fair comparison ... Almost any car with 'proper' snow tyres will
outperform most other cars with standard tyres. A lot of not getting stuck
is planning and correct driving techniques to minimise the chances of
getting stuck.

> In other words, are
> the differences in offroad ability of soft roaders significant or are
> they actually less than the differences between different sets of
> tyres (i.e. I can stop worrying about them).

Book a place on an off-road driving day somewhere and ask for it to be in
deep mud, or if possible deep snow, and learn a few new driving techniques.
This will be way more cost effective than almost anything, other than
fitting decent snow tyres, else you can do.

The tyres minimise the differences between vehicles. Decent tyres will make
a crap car much better in snow.


--
Paul

(8(|) Homer rocks ..

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:30:39 +0000 (UTC), "James BIGFOOT Holloway"
<[email protected]> wrote:


>I think i said last time it is VERY MUCH ALL ABOUT TYRES,

At the risk of sounding thick - how do you change your tyres? Do you
have a second set of wheels with the tyres already on them?

--

Paul

My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003):

http://paulrooney.netfirms.com

"Paul - xxx" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] posted ...
>
> > So simple question. Would a Rav4 with decent snow tyres perform as
> > well (or better) thah an Xtrail with stock tyres?
>
> Not a fair comparison ... Almost any car with 'proper' snow tyres will
> outperform most other cars with standard tyres. A lot of not getting stuck
> is planning and correct driving techniques to minimise the chances of
> getting stuck.
>
> > In other words, are
> > the differences in offroad ability of soft roaders significant or are
> > they actually less than the differences between different sets of
> > tyres (i.e. I can stop worrying about them).
>
> Book a place on an off-road driving day somewhere and ask for it to be in
> deep mud, or if possible deep snow, and learn a few new driving techniques.
> This will be way more cost effective than almost anything, other than
> fitting decent snow tyres, else you can do.
>
> The tyres minimise the differences between vehicles. Decent tyres will make
> a crap car much better in snow.



I suppose its the 'have it all, now' expectation at work.

If you do 20k per year on tarmac and get '****ed' because you get
stuck in snow a couple of times then perhaps you need to decide
priorities.

The last thread became pretty long, this one is threatening to do the
same. There isn't a perfect answer. If you choose to live in rural
Aberdeenshire, if
you want to drive 20k on tarmac, if you are happy to buy a new vehicle
just to have the guaranteed ability to get through the snow twice a
year then you may as well face the fact that you will pay dearly for
the other 363 days if you insist that the solution has to be four
wheel drive and, perhaps, tyred at all times, in Winter at least, to
deliver that guarantee.

This is what we do in the rural Pennines. For 363 days of the year we
drive cars designed to travel safely, economically and quickly 'on
tarmac' covering high mileages.

Then on the two days when the snow is drifting deep between the walls
if we really really must travel we get into an elderly Land Rover
purchased for £500 (and used for little else but hauling logs)
equipped with shovels, a winch, high grip tyres, chains, survival kit
etc. and we drive out to the nearest town. If there was a snow
warning the car will have been left on the nearest point that is on a
priority route for clearing and gritting - get that from your Local
Authority.

Its 'horses for courses'. Believe me there really are different kinds
of snow so if you want to choose tyres we can have a very long chat
about how many different types of tyre you will need to guarantee your
guarantee. Remember you will need two sets of four each ready on
rims. One set at home in case it snows overnight and one set at the
edge of whatever passes for metropolitan civilisation in
Aberdeenshire.

In Russia, Scandinavia and Canada, the mountain states of the USA and
lots of other places including the upland parts of Britain that I know
they just drive with the appropriate skills in ordinary vehicles with
the back up of chains and shovels in the boot. Most people don't do
the Canute thing and attempt to control everything. What is so
desperate that you can't take two days off and enjoy the snowscapes?

Indeed, why do people come to live in rural areas and then treat them
as a suburbia to be conquered. We had folk in our nearest village
asking for the lane out to be straightened, widened and to have street
lights destroying its very character so they could blast in and out
each day.

I think you should take the advice of the previous poster and go learn
the appropriate techniques in snow. The nearest place with a near
certainty of snow and a large number of English speaker is northern
Skandinavia in February. There are snow and ice driving lessons
available. Ryanair fly to Stockholm and somewhere in Finland for next
to nothing in February so it'll work out much cheaper than buying a
compromise vehicle.

Here's hoping you get this sorted before next Winter!

KRs Q

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:43:25 +0100, Paul Rooney <[email protected]> wrote:

->On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:30:39 +0000 (UTC), "James BIGFOOT Holloway"
-><[email protected]> wrote:
->
->
->>I think i said last time it is VERY MUCH ALL ABOUT TYRES,
->
->At the risk of sounding thick - how do you change your tyres? Do you
->have a second set of wheels with the tyres already on them?

If it's snow tyres will make a difference get a set of good mud tyres on another
set of wheels and swap them over when the snow if forecast.

If it's ice the tyres will make little difference, you would be better served by
snow chains.

--
Geoff
www.anoraks.uk.net

Thanks for the detailed reply. Just a few comments. I've snipped your
message for brevity, but hopefully not taken anything out of context.

On 21-Apr-2004, [email protected] (q4jgpn) wrote:

> > Not a fair comparison ... Almost any car with 'proper' snow tyres will
> > outperform most other cars with standard tyres. A lot of not getting
> > stuck
> > is planning and correct driving techniques to minimise the chances of
> > getting stuck.

I'd agree that a lot of not getting stuck is down to driving skills. I've
been driving through snow in winter for the last ten years (six in
Abedeenshire and 4 in Salt Lake City - with regular winter trips to
Yellowstone) but I'm sure there is plenty more that I could learn.

> If you choose to live in rural
> Aberdeenshire, if
> you want to drive 20k on tarmac, if you are happy to buy a new vehicle
> just to have the guaranteed ability to get through the snow twice a
> year then you may as well face the fact that you will pay dearly for
> the other 363 days if you insist that the solution has to be four
> wheel drive and, perhaps, tyred at all times, in Winter at least, to
> deliver that guarantee.

You are right that there is an element of trying to control everything,
which clearly can't be done. But the simple fact is that it is time to
change the car. All cars will be a compromise but I can't see the harm in
getting something that copes better in the snow than our current car.
Especially if it drives like a car, has more space than our Mazda yet better
fuel economy. Not really sure what the downside is.

> This is what we do in the rural Pennines. For 363 days of the year we
> drive cars designed to travel safely, economically and quickly 'on
> tarmac' covering high mileages.
>
> Then on the two days when the snow is drifting deep between the walls
> if we really really must travel we get into an elderly Land Rover
> purchased for £500 (and used for little else but hauling logs)
> equipped with shovels, a winch, high grip tyres, chains, survival kit
> etc. and we drive out to the nearest town.

That's certainly an option that we've considered. But it means taxing,
insuring and maintaining two cars and if the £500 one only gets called on a
couple of times a year can you be sure that it will start. I'm certainly not
ruling this out but it seems that there is a higher price to pay using this
option than just getting a car (or car based SUV) with AWD.


> In Russia, Scandinavia and Canada, the mountain states of the USA and
> lots of other places including the upland parts of Britain that I know
> they just drive with the appropriate skills in ordinary vehicles with
> the back up of chains and shovels in the boot.

You may be right about Russia, Scandinavia and Canada but I've just returned
from a trip to Utah and they might as well rename Salt Lake City as Subaru
City. Some days you have to look hard to find a 2WD vehicle out there.

> What is so
> desperate that you can't take two days off and enjoy the snowscapes?
>

Nothing, the odd snow day is one of the advantages of living in the sticks.
The problems come when it snows harder than expected during the day and we
get stuck getting home or getting to the nursery (also in a village) to pick
our daughter up. Main problem this year was getting back from a weekend in
Aviemore after an unexpected snowfall. Managed to get through some pretty
hairy stuff in our car with 2WD and stupid low profile tyres. But since that
car has to be replaced anyway I'd rather the next one had significantly
better traction in th snow, simple as that really. I agree that in most
cases 2WD with good snow tyres will do the job. But surely having power
going to all four wheels has to be better still.

> Indeed, why do people come to live in rural areas and then treat them
> as a suburbia to be conquered. We had folk in our nearest village
> asking for the lane out to be straightened, widened and to have street
> lights destroying its very character so they could blast in and out
> each day.

Believe me I have no desire to change the character of our village. But the
fact is that all the locals are driving 4x4s. It's only the idiot incommers
who try to get through the winter in a small family hatchback with low
profile tyres.

Cheers,

Andy

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> OK silly newbie question time again.
>
> I posted a question a while back about the best soft roader for snow. To
> recap I live in rural Aberdeenshire and am getting fed up with having to
dig
> the car out after getting stuck in the snow. happens at least a couple of
> times a year. But I'm not interested in real offroad and drive around
20,000
> miles on tarmac each year. So I'm thinking diesel (for the economy)
> soft-roader (for extra traction and clearance). Currently it seems to be
> between the Xtrail and the Rav4. The Xtrail is the sensible option.
Supposed
> to have better off road ability than the Rav. More space, more bells and
> whistles. But (to me) it looks like an oversized tonka toy. So I'm leaning
> towards the Rav. But if I buy that and end up stuck in a snowbank as
Xtrails
> cruise by I'm going to be well ****ed.
>
> So simple question. Would a Rav4 with decent snow tyres perform as well
(or
> better) thah an Xtrail with stock tyres? In other words, are the
differences
> in offroad ability of soft roaders significant or are they actually less
> than the differences between different sets of tyres (i.e. I can stop
> worrying about them).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andy

Can't help about snow but my RAV diesel goes great on the road giving 46+
mpg and I can even squeeze over 50 mpg on long runs on economy mode.
Roger

hello if u stuck a very good set of snow tyres on then it will be hell of a
lot better iam sure if u stuck a set on a 2CV( not being horibble to 2cv
owners) it would drive better than a Xtrail.
I think i said last time it is VERY MUCH ALL ABOUT TYRES, i come across this
all the time when 4x4ing i run goodyear MTR's it would not be a fair to
compaire then to lets say some stock vitara wheels as they r made for
different jobs. What u should decided is what 4x4 u want as the tyres r not
part of the truck IF you know what i mean

hope this helps

james

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> OK silly newbie question time again.
>
> I posted a question a while back about the best soft roader for snow. To
> recap I live in rural Aberdeenshire and am getting fed up with having to
dig
> the car out after getting stuck in the snow. happens at least a couple of
> times a year. But I'm not interested in real offroad and drive around
20,000
> miles on tarmac each year. So I'm thinking diesel (for the economy)
> soft-roader (for extra traction and clearance). Currently it seems to be
> between the Xtrail and the Rav4. The Xtrail is the sensible option.
Supposed
> to have better off road ability than the Rav. More space, more bells and
> whistles. But (to me) it looks like an oversized tonka toy. So I'm leaning
> towards the Rav. But if I buy that and end up stuck in a snowbank as
Xtrails
> cruise by I'm going to be well ****ed.
>
> So simple question. Would a Rav4 with decent snow tyres perform as well
(or
> better) thah an Xtrail with stock tyres? In other words, are the
differences
> in offroad ability of soft roaders significant or are they actually less
> than the differences between different sets of tyres (i.e. I can stop
> worrying about them).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andy

[email protected] wrote:

> Nothing, the odd snow day is one of the advantages of living in the
> sticks. The problems come when it snows harder than expected during
> the day and we get stuck getting home or getting to the nursery (also
> in a village) to pick our daughter up. Main problem this year was
> getting back from a weekend in Aviemore after an unexpected snowfall.
> Managed to get through some pretty hairy stuff in our car with 2WD
> and stupid low profile tyres. But since that car has to be replaced
> anyway I'd rather the next one had significantly better traction in
> th snow, simple as that really. I agree that in most cases 2WD with
> good snow tyres will do the job. But surely having power going to all
> four wheels has to be better still.

Power to all 4 wheels means you get double the traction when you try and
acellerate. You don't get double the normal amount of braking or cornering
grip. If you can't drive in a normal car on snow tyres, I wouldn't bother
trying to drive a "soft roader" with snow tyres. When you lose it, it'll be
a lot harder to catch the slide because the centre of gravity is higher.
I've driven a front wheel drive quite happily on ice, without a fancy LSD or
traction control just by being gentle with the control and driving in a high
gear to limit the torque I'm putting down. If you must have 4 wheel drive,
I'd be tempted to go for an Audi Quattro or Subaru rather than a tonka toy.

[email protected] posted ...

> So simple question. Would a Rav4 with decent snow tyres perform as
> well (or better) thah an Xtrail with stock tyres?

Not a fair comparison ... Almost any car with 'proper' snow tyres will
outperform most other cars with standard tyres. A lot of not getting stuck
is planning and correct driving techniques to minimise the chances of
getting stuck.

> In other words, are
> the differences in offroad ability of soft roaders significant or are
> they actually less than the differences between different sets of
> tyres (i.e. I can stop worrying about them).

Book a place on an off-road driving day somewhere and ask for it to be in
deep mud, or if possible deep snow, and learn a few new driving techniques.
This will be way more cost effective than almost anything, other than
fitting decent snow tyres, else you can do.

The tyres minimise the differences between vehicles. Decent tyres will make
a crap car much better in snow.


--
Paul

(8(|) Homer rocks ..

On 21-Apr-2004, "Roger Hainsworth" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Can't help about snow but my RAV diesel goes great on the road giving 46+
> mpg and I can even squeeze over 50 mpg on long runs on economy mode.
> Roger

Thanks for the feedaback Roger. I've got a test drive in the Rav booked for
this morning. Still think it's the best looking of the soft roader options
although the X-trail seems to be the more sensible option. More space,
(allegedly) better in slippery conditions etc. But that economy is very
impressive. If I remember correctly the Rav actually shows you your fuel
economy so I'll check to see what the diesel demo gives today. By the way,
what do you mean by economy mode. I assume that's just you driving to
maximise economy. Does that mean sticking to 60 mph on the motorway? t's a
long way from Aberdeen to visit the releatives down south and I usually
cruise at 75-80mph. For comparison, on a recent trip down south in our small
family hatchback (Mazda 323) we only averaged 32mpg.

Cheers,

Andy

On 21-Apr-2004, "Doki" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Power to all 4 wheels means you get double the traction when you try and
> acellerate. You don't get double the normal amount of braking or cornering
> grip. If you can't drive in a normal car on snow tyres, I wouldn't bother
> trying to drive a "soft roader" with snow tyres. When you lose it, it'll
> be
> a lot harder to catch the slide because the centre of gravity is higher.

Fair point, but our problem is primarily traction. I don't have a problem
driving in the snow once I've got going (had lots of practice). We have to
go up a hill to get to our village. This winter I managed to get our Mazda
with it's crappy low profile tyres into the village through pretty deep
drifting snow on a number of occasions. Mainly just by getting some speed up
before hitting the hill then driving smoothly up it and round the bend at
the top. But if I'd met anybody comming the other way I'd have to stop (they
only plough the middle bit) and I very much doubt that I'd be able to get
started.

Cheers,

Andy

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:30:39 +0000 (UTC), "James BIGFOOT Holloway"
<[email protected]> wrote:


>I think i said last time it is VERY MUCH ALL ABOUT TYRES,

At the risk of sounding thick - how do you change your tyres? Do you
have a second set of wheels with the tyres already on them?

--

Paul

My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003):

http://paulrooney.netfirms.com

On 21-Apr-2004, "Doki" <[email protected]> wrote:

> If you must have 4 wheel drive,
> I'd be tempted to go for an Audi Quattro or Subaru rather than a tonka
> toy.

Well obviously it's more want than need, but I guess you could say that
about lots of things. Couldn't really claim that I must have a car at all if
it really came down to it. But the Subaru is certainly an option. Only
problem is that it only comes in petrol form with worse fuel economy than
either the Rav or Xtrail (in diesel form). According to new-car-net the cost
per mile for a Legacy 2.0i s is 29.6 compared with 24.6 for the diesel Rav.
So that's a grand a year more expensive (based on 20,000 miles per year).
Plus the ground clerance is worse (an issue in the snow). But it is over a
grand cheaper and they are offering free servicing for the first 36,000
miles at the moment so it's still on the list of possibles.

Cheers,

Andy

"Paul - xxx" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] posted ...
>
> > So simple question. Would a Rav4 with decent snow tyres perform as
> > well (or better) thah an Xtrail with stock tyres?
>
> Not a fair comparison ... Almost any car with 'proper' snow tyres will
> outperform most other cars with standard tyres. A lot of not getting stuck
> is planning and correct driving techniques to minimise the chances of
> getting stuck.
>
> > In other words, are
> > the differences in offroad ability of soft roaders significant or are
> > they actually less than the differences between different sets of
> > tyres (i.e. I can stop worrying about them).
>
> Book a place on an off-road driving day somewhere and ask for it to be in
> deep mud, or if possible deep snow, and learn a few new driving techniques.
> This will be way more cost effective than almost anything, other than
> fitting decent snow tyres, else you can do.
>
> The tyres minimise the differences between vehicles. Decent tyres will make
> a crap car much better in snow.



I suppose its the 'have it all, now' expectation at work.

If you do 20k per year on tarmac and get '****ed' because you get
stuck in snow a couple of times then perhaps you need to decide
priorities.

The last thread became pretty long, this one is threatening to do the
same. There isn't a perfect answer. If you choose to live in rural
Aberdeenshire, if
you want to drive 20k on tarmac, if you are happy to buy a new vehicle
just to have the guaranteed ability to get through the snow twice a
year then you may as well face the fact that you will pay dearly for
the other 363 days if you insist that the solution has to be four
wheel drive and, perhaps, tyred at all times, in Winter at least, to
deliver that guarantee.

This is what we do in the rural Pennines. For 363 days of the year we
drive cars designed to travel safely, economically and quickly 'on
tarmac' covering high mileages.

Then on the two days when the snow is drifting deep between the walls
if we really really must travel we get into an elderly Land Rover
purchased for £500 (and used for little else but hauling logs)
equipped with shovels, a winch, high grip tyres, chains, survival kit
etc. and we drive out to the nearest town. If there was a snow
warning the car will have been left on the nearest point that is on a
priority route for clearing and gritting - get that from your Local
Authority.

Its 'horses for courses'. Believe me there really are different kinds
of snow so if you want to choose tyres we can have a very long chat
about how many different types of tyre you will need to guarantee your
guarantee. Remember you will need two sets of four each ready on
rims. One set at home in case it snows overnight and one set at the
edge of whatever passes for metropolitan civilisation in
Aberdeenshire.

In Russia, Scandinavia and Canada, the mountain states of the USA and
lots of other places including the upland parts of Britain that I know
they just drive with the appropriate skills in ordinary vehicles with
the back up of chains and shovels in the boot. Most people don't do
the Canute thing and attempt to control everything. What is so
desperate that you can't take two days off and enjoy the snowscapes?

Indeed, why do people come to live in rural areas and then treat them
as a suburbia to be conquered. We had folk in our nearest village
asking for the lane out to be straightened, widened and to have street
lights destroying its very character so they could blast in and out
each day.

I think you should take the advice of the previous poster and go learn
the appropriate techniques in snow. The nearest place with a near
certainty of snow and a large number of English speaker is northern
Skandinavia in February. There are snow and ice driving lessons
available. Ryanair fly to Stockholm and somewhere in Finland for next
to nothing in February so it'll work out much cheaper than buying a
compromise vehicle.

Here's hoping you get this sorted before next Winter!

KRs Q

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:43:25 +0100, Paul Rooney <[email protected]> wrote:

->On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:30:39 +0000 (UTC), "James BIGFOOT Holloway"
-><[email protected]> wrote:
->
->
->>I think i said last time it is VERY MUCH ALL ABOUT TYRES,
->
->At the risk of sounding thick - how do you change your tyres? Do you
->have a second set of wheels with the tyres already on them?

If it's snow tyres will make a difference get a set of good mud tyres on another
set of wheels and swap them over when the snow if forecast.

If it's ice the tyres will make little difference, you would be better served by
snow chains.

--
Geoff
www.anoraks.uk.net

Thanks for the detailed reply. Just a few comments. I've snipped your
message for brevity, but hopefully not taken anything out of context.

On 21-Apr-2004, [email protected] (q4jgpn) wrote:

> > Not a fair comparison ... Almost any car with 'proper' snow tyres will
> > outperform most other cars with standard tyres. A lot of not getting
> > stuck
> > is planning and correct driving techniques to minimise the chances of
> > getting stuck.

I'd agree that a lot of not getting stuck is down to driving skills. I've
been driving through snow in winter for the last ten years (six in
Abedeenshire and 4 in Salt Lake City - with regular winter trips to
Yellowstone) but I'm sure there is plenty more that I could learn.

> If you choose to live in rural
> Aberdeenshire, if
> you want to drive 20k on tarmac, if you are happy to buy a new vehicle
> just to have the guaranteed ability to get through the snow twice a
> year then you may as well face the fact that you will pay dearly for
> the other 363 days if you insist that the solution has to be four
> wheel drive and, perhaps, tyred at all times, in Winter at least, to
> deliver that guarantee.

You are right that there is an element of trying to control everything,
which clearly can't be done. But the simple fact is that it is time to
change the car. All cars will be a compromise but I can't see the harm in
getting something that copes better in the snow than our current car.
Especially if it drives like a car, has more space than our Mazda yet better
fuel economy. Not really sure what the downside is.

> This is what we do in the rural Pennines. For 363 days of the year we
> drive cars designed to travel safely, economically and quickly 'on
> tarmac' covering high mileages.
>
> Then on the two days when the snow is drifting deep between the walls
> if we really really must travel we get into an elderly Land Rover
> purchased for £500 (and used for little else but hauling logs)
> equipped with shovels, a winch, high grip tyres, chains, survival kit
> etc. and we drive out to the nearest town.

That's certainly an option that we've considered. But it means taxing,
insuring and maintaining two cars and if the £500 one only gets called on a
couple of times a year can you be sure that it will start. I'm certainly not
ruling this out but it seems that there is a higher price to pay using this
option than just getting a car (or car based SUV) with AWD.


> In Russia, Scandinavia and Canada, the mountain states of the USA and
> lots of other places including the upland parts of Britain that I know
> they just drive with the appropriate skills in ordinary vehicles with
> the back up of chains and shovels in the boot.

You may be right about Russia, Scandinavia and Canada but I've just returned
from a trip to Utah and they might as well rename Salt Lake City as Subaru
City. Some days you have to look hard to find a 2WD vehicle out there.

> What is so
> desperate that you can't take two days off and enjoy the snowscapes?
>

Nothing, the odd snow day is one of the advantages of living in the sticks.
The problems come when it snows harder than expected during the day and we
get stuck getting home or getting to the nursery (also in a village) to pick
our daughter up. Main problem this year was getting back from a weekend in
Aviemore after an unexpected snowfall. Managed to get through some pretty
hairy stuff in our car with 2WD and stupid low profile tyres. But since that
car has to be replaced anyway I'd rather the next one had significantly
better traction in th snow, simple as that really. I agree that in most
cases 2WD with good snow tyres will do the job. But surely having power
going to all four wheels has to be better still.

> Indeed, why do people come to live in rural areas and then treat them
> as a suburbia to be conquered. We had folk in our nearest village
> asking for the lane out to be straightened, widened and to have street
> lights destroying its very character so they could blast in and out
> each day.

Believe me I have no desire to change the character of our village. But the
fact is that all the locals are driving 4x4s. It's only the idiot incommers
who try to get through the winter in a small family hatchback with low
profile tyres.

Cheers,

Andy

Andy,

> > Can't help about snow but my RAV diesel goes great on the road giving
46+
> > mpg and I can even squeeze over 50 mpg on long runs on economy mode.
> > Roger

> the X-trail seems to be the more sensible option.

Tried the X-Trail and handling not as good as RAV.

> More space,

RAV rear seating system is very versatile. Boot also has more height (due to
external spare wheel) which is important for me for (2 folding bikes
carried, wouldn't fit in upright in the X-Trail with parcel shelf in place).

> what do you mean by economy mode. I assume that's just you driving to
> maximise economy. Does that mean sticking to 60 mph on the motorway?

Yes, a light right foot but even clogging it will still better 40 mpg. When
towing a 1250 kg caravan was 32 mpg.
Roger

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> OK silly newbie question time again.
>
> I posted a question a while back about the best soft roader for snow. To
> recap I live in rural Aberdeenshire and am getting fed up with having to
dig
> the car out after getting stuck in the snow. happens at least a couple of
> times a year. But I'm not interested in real offroad and drive around
20,000
> miles on tarmac each year. So I'm thinking diesel (for the economy)
> soft-roader (for extra traction and clearance). Currently it seems to be
> between the Xtrail and the Rav4. The Xtrail is the sensible option.
Supposed
> to have better off road ability than the Rav. More space, more bells and
> whistles. But (to me) it looks like an oversized tonka toy. So I'm leaning
> towards the Rav. But if I buy that and end up stuck in a snowbank as
Xtrails
> cruise by I'm going to be well ****ed.
>
> So simple question. Would a Rav4 with decent snow tyres perform as well
(or
> better) thah an Xtrail with stock tyres? In other words, are the
differences
> in offroad ability of soft roaders significant or are they actually less
> than the differences between different sets of tyres (i.e. I can stop
> worrying about them).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andy

Can't help about snow but my RAV diesel goes great on the road giving 46+
mpg and I can even squeeze over 50 mpg on long runs on economy mode.
Roger