Help, what did I do ?

Just been out and my hp pump hisses when I turn on the ignition. Started normally.
The noise changes slightly at the same time as the lp pump changes. I put a cheap lp pump on as I was not sure if the pump was faulty or not.
looks like it was so will replace with a pierburg in a month or two.

Does the hissing ever stop, I didnt leave mine very long.

Does anyone have a pump that does not hiss?????

My truck hisses for about 20 seconds then goes off, not sure if it was doing this when it was running properly.

LP pump runs all the time.

Can someone please check if their hissing HP pump goes off when on ignition, don't crank it just on pre-ignition.

Am getting really fed up with it not firing now.

Fed up of shooting in the dark, have bit bullet and bought a Terrafirma tf930 scanner. Here inn a couple of days.

Rocky Ward said:

Alibro : If the HP and LP pumps aren't up to a preset limit, then the ECU is programmed to NOT fire, since it tries to run on Easy Start then can't be cut off valve can it, yes did leak off test, which is like cracking the injector pipes, no fuel so why would there be any spare fuel to enter spill pipe system ?

Can someone else check if their pump hisses for 20 secs or so on the ignition stage, ie key turned but not running.

Thanks.

Click to expand...

First thing to check when you get your scanner is the low side pressure (given above). If this is too low, the ECU will kill the engine as the HP pump requires a minimum pressure to cool and lubricate it. It does this (I think) by cutting power to the injectors but the no fuel problem could be the fuel pressure regulator attached to the HP pump.

Yes, there is a hissing noise from my HP pump with key on, engine off. Lasts as long as the LP pump is running, about 1.5 minutes.

The engine would run on easystart with the inertia switch tripped, by the way.

I was told that the LP pump needs to be 380kPa and the HP needs to be 440kPa, so thats what I shall look for after checking stored fault codes.

Scanner was £100 but money well spent I think.

Have gone over pipes as best I can can't see a leak anywhere but the LP connectors on the back of the pump are hidden so can't be sure.

guineafowl21, thanks for the info.

RAVE swaps annoyingly between kPa, bar and psi but at idle, typical values are:

LP - (pre-supply pressure) 350 kPa
HP - (rail pressure) 30 MPa, that is, 30,000 kPa. Far higher than you were told.

Also look at the fuel pressure regulator duty cycle - should be about 15% at idle.

Thanks, guineafowl21

The HPFR on my TD4 ranges from 25,000 KPa at idle to over 100,000KPa at 3,000Rpm, full throttle.

Rocky Ward said:

Alibro : If the HP and LP pumps aren't up to a preset limit, then the ECU is programmed to NOT fire, since it tries to run on Easy Start then can't be cut off valve can it, yes did leak off test, which is like cracking the injector pipes, no fuel so why would there be any spare fuel to enter spill pipe system ?

Can someone else check if their pump hisses for 20 secs or so on the ignition stage, ie key turned but not running.

Thanks.

Click to expand...

Agreed the cut off valve is a long shot but thought it was worth mentioning.
Ok, so here is an even more stupid question but I'll ask anyway. How much fuel is in the tank? If less than half full it might be an issue if LP pump is iffy.
I wouldn't say I get any hissing but I would say the pump under the bonnet is quite loud. for probably more than 20 secs.
What I was getting at with the loom question is you had to disconnect a fair bit of stuff and move it around to replace the heater plugs so maybe you inadvertently disturbed an already dodgy connection or broken wire.

Plugged in posh scanner and the following 7 codes remain after clearing and cranking.

P0100 - Air Flow Meter - (not relevant to starting problem I presume)
P3505 - Glow Plug Relay - (not relevant to not firing I assume )
P1110 - Boost Air Temp Sensor (???)
P1195 - Fuel Pressure Control Valve (???)
P1E30 - Short Circuit to V Battery +ve (???)
P0400 - EGR Fault - ( I have an EGR bypass kit so presume this is normal)
P1E25 - Cam Sensor Camshaft Signal Sensor - (same with new and original cam sensor fitted)

Any help from an experienced fixer would be appreciated, I re-emphasise that all was ok until I stripped the top of engine to swap out glow plugs.

Does anyone see an obvious issue with these codes that fits the symptoms ?

It cranks but doesn't fire will do so on Easy Start, no fuel or juice to injectors so assumption is ECU has seen something it doesn't like.

Thanks, Karl.

Amazing what you find when you know where to look.

P1110 - Boost Air Temp Sensor, although it looked ok and I hadn't removed it, one of the wires had broken off at the back of the connector and the other is hanging by a thread. Since its part of the loom and in a really awkward place its going to be a nasty repair.

Both wire stubs still have good continuity so I should be able to repair them.

I have managed to dig out the plastic around the short broken wire and solder a new wire onto it.

Having done the same on the longer broken wire I have re-checked continuity and reinforced both delicate gauge wires with some plastic padding super steel, this should make the repaid stronger than original, I can't believe how flimsy this wire is, crazy when you consider its at the front of the engine bay open to the elements and road debris.

Hope fully tomorrow I will be able to be able to solder this repaired connector onto the 2 wires in the loom, access it poor so I expect some hair pulling and swearing might occur.

You might have a wiring issue to the cam sensor, everyone was saying it would not start if that sensor was duff. I dont' know and dont have time at the minute to go unplug mine and see if it starts.

Ok, coming to the party late and I haven't read the thread fully so sorry if repeating. Read this:

We recovered this car with a flat battery the customer who had bought his own cheap battery of ebay.
It was knackered. The car sat outside whilst we waited for him to get the battery replaced.
We fitted his new battery and I insisted he have the new one (battery / starter / charging test) tested, a global scan codes cleared and all reset done as needed.

He drive the car a away without faults. Two days later he has a cranking no start situation, so we pulled the car in again.

Crank no start and no oil pressure light on dash. No activity at either low pressure pumps (tank and engine bay).

Another global scan showed P1260 delivery fuel pressure monitoring P3505 Glow system on ECU.

P1605 - A/T ECU EEPROM error on transmission

28H/40 - undocumented code
C7 - tank level sensor
F8 - CAN Data Error from DME/DDE
F6 - CAN Data Error from DME/DDE
F7 - CAN Data Error from DME/DDE
All on instrument cluster

Cleared all codes and rescanned (all units) at KOEO only the two ECU codes returned. Same code result after cranking.

Chose to ignore glow plug code and focus on the P1260 and the lack of pump activity.

Ran and actuator test on FP relay and Oil pressure light neither responded or activated.

Tested FP relay in relay tester and operated fine under load.
Relay should be switched to earth at KOEO by ecu all +ve at relay present and correct but switch earth missing.
Pulled scuttle panel (all clean and dry) and load tested earth wire - relay to ecu. No fault found. Scope at earth pin on ECU no switching to earth.

De-pinned earth and fed separate earth to relay down de-pinned wire from engine bay - bingo both LP pumps join the party. Initially wouldn't start on cranking.

Went to lunch left the battery on support - came back after lunch to the same result.

Live data showed 3.54bar on fuel LP (to spec) so it should start. All other fuel data in pids showed zero so I thought maybe the pump and rail were empty still for some reason.

This is where it goes wierd.

We did nothing more than try cranking a few times with and without our new relay earth connected.
Cleared codes again left LP pump running for 10 secs the car started - left the car running for five minutes whilst checking live data - all live data as should be all through rev range.
So I am thinking have we got an ECU fault or a start command fault.

So refitted FP relay pin back to ECU and tried it again - started on the button - so now I am baffled.

So I thought I would see if the code P1260 definition was correct (verus's reputation and all) - but the jury seemed out, some parties say its immobliser and some say LP fuel

So put the car back in car park to let go cold and looked up code definition. Went back to car to do a cold start - no start and no LP pumps running.

Locked and unlocked the car 4 times - it started sweet as drove it back into workshop. Rescanned and only the P3505 glow plug code recorded.

So I haven't had the in-tank pump out of either side to check.

I did low amps both low pressure pumps to see if I had a failing armature - under bonnet pump 5.5 to 6 amps no nasties - but in tank pump showed 2 peaks at 8 amps then 2 at 9.2 certainly wasn't consistent - so could be a possibility of the motor parking in a high spot. Both pumps run off the same circuit and together its only 15 amps draw.

Right now the car starts every time on first rotation of engine so can't fault it - but I haven't found the problem. So am reluctant to give it back to the customer.

Thanks for all your input so far - I think Prince has given me my next tests. So I must verify the code definition and see what I get with reader coil disconnected.

I hope this all makes sense.

From this thread

http://206.72.115.172/forums/Topic145401.aspx


I was most interested in the earth cable to relay part, but make of it what you will.
Cheers
Mike

Lowbank said:

You might have a wiring issue to the cam sensor, everyone was saying it would not start if that sensor was duff. I dont' know and dont have time at the minute to go unplug mine and see if it starts.

Click to expand...

I still think that the cam sensor or it's wiring is the problem. It's flagging a code so it's likely the cause. I suspect that the wiring could be damaged. The wiring to the cam sensor is the same thin crappy wiring used for the boosted air temp sensor. The cam sensor wiring can also be pulled when the inlet manifold is removed.

Successfully repaired the Boost Air Temp Sensor and the code does not come back when reset etc.

Nodge68 - Took your advice and inspected the 3 wires on the Cam Sensor plug, I pulled them at the plug end and as they enter the loom; nothing.

So I thought I would disconnect it and try cranking the car and testing the scar with my new scanner again.

Weirdly it made the code disappear, I cleared the code and reconnected the Cam Sensor plug, still cleared.

So I am now down to 5 codes :-

P0100 - Air Flow Meter - ( not relevant to starting problem )
P3505 - Glow Plug Relay - ( not relevant to not firing I assume )
P1195 - Fuel Pressure Control Valve (???)
P1E30 - Short Circuit to V Battery +ve (???)
P0400 - EGR Fault - ( I have an EGR bypass kit so this is normal)

More research tells me that if the FPCV thinks the pressure is too low it shuts off fuel to the HP Pump, I am thinking this is my next area to focus on, I supposed either that the valve is faulty or there is not enough fuel pressure.

Any more thoughts guys ?

I think I might have the answer, my new scanner calls P1E30 - Short Circuit to V Battery +ve but according to some sites I have visited its the MAP Sensor that has failed, bear in mind it was the only connector I undid when I swapped the glow plugs.

Took a chance and bought an Intermotor MAP Sensor for £36 delivered, here in a few days.

The MAP sensor is on the inlet manifold, at the front of the engine. The MAF is at the back of the engine on turbo side of the air filter housing. The engine will start and run quite happily with the MAF disconnected.

By afm do you mean maf. If so just unplug it to test it, doing this forces a default reading.
If face lifts have another sensor, I'm unaware of this.
Mike