Help please, the only thing we can think off next is a can of petrol and a match

Apologies for the long read newbie at the end of their rope:frusty:

I have a 1979 series 3 Landrover which i bought of Ebay becuase it was just doen the road from me and i always wanted one. It cost me £200 and had no MOT or anything with it. The clutch was so far gone i had to put it on a ramp and tow it away. I have resprayed the truck, new tilt top, tyres wheels, interior chequer plate, upgraded lights, new diesel injectors, acoustic mat..... etc.

Now for the Problem

I decided to sort the brakes out on the truck as it had been lying around for two years before i got it. So i have purchased all new brake parts, springs, shoes and slave cylinders.

3 off the pipes had welded them selves to the slave cylinders, the rear flexible welded itself to the T piece at the rear. I have therefore replaced everything including the rear flexible pipe.

Ithen set about bleeeding the system, 6 liters of fluid later and a lot of water and junk out of the system. I figured the master cylinder had packed up as it had never been pushed to the floor before. So off to brookwells for another one. Like going to the shop anyway lots of shiny bits.

I have now fitted the new master cylinder and two new front flexible hoses. I thought what the hell they are only £.50 each and one may have collapsed.

I have made a pressure bleed system attached to a spare resevoir top but after running another 3 litres of fluid through the vehicle i can still get the pedal all the way to the floor. With a bit of effort but its along way from a solid pedal. Also after stamping on the pedal a new times one or two of the drums become solid and i can no longer move them by hand.

ooh and the brakes are rubbish:doh:

Any ideas on what is wrong with this bloody ( not swearing the blood from my knuckels is smeared all over them) braking system would be very gratefully received as the onld man and i are nearly at our wits end.

A very simple 2 hour job has now off and on probably taken a week!!!!

Brakes were **** when they left the factory. Best Advice I have heard for bleeding brakes on a series, is jack front end in the air fill reservoir with brake fluid and leave overnight.

I replaced all the brake pipes on my 109 this weekend. I was a bit ****ed off that none of the adaptors in my eezibleed thing would fit the reservoir but got the missus to do the pumping. Started at the near side rear, then off side rear, then near side front, then finally off side front. Didn't have any problems. No help at all I know.

possibly recheck the bits and pieces in the drums are fitted correctly. Sure it shouldnt stay locked like that. edit: there is also a kinda of bias cylinder thing on my series 3 than can also leak. are you loosing fluid at all?

Make sure your brakes are adjusted correctly. If the shoes are having to move too far you will never get a good pedal.

i had the same kinda problem when i was doing mine. turned out i had the rear spring on the wrong way round. try it, wot you got to lose..

Davec said:

Make sure your brakes are adjusted correctly. If the shoes are having to move too far you will never get a good pedal.

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i'd agree with dave there my brakes were ****e then I adjusted the shoes so now there just crap !

the brakes can be a complete **** to bleed, you have to have all the adjusters all the way off, then clamp up the other hoses and bleed one at a time, then readjust

I'd agree with the comments above re: adjusting - if you went with the paddocks kit i found that i had to put the brake shoe on 'backwards' to how the other one came off to get the adjuster to sit on the pin coming off the brake shoe... This was after lots and lots of brake fluid, swearing, replacing bits and lying on my back outside in the snow until 2am.

i'm from devon! no help though

My problems usually turn out to be the rear brakes. For a quick check I clamp the flexible hydraulic pipe linking front to back if this gives me a hard pedal then at least I have proven half the system.
I did once fit the shoes incorrectly, the clue was that the adjusters ran out of adjustment.
The other point already stated is to wind the adjusters right back prior to bleeding and then adjust them afterwards.

Hi,
You are obviously sucking in air. If you replaced a pipe-check that it is bedded in at both ends tightly and that no air is coming in or out. Secondly, have you replaced the wheel cylinders-are any of them weeping fluid? Do the pistons in the wheel cylinders actually move when the brakes are adjusted or is one or more seized?
Hope this helps
ARTMUSS

does yours have the shuttle valve that's attached to the off side inner chassis rail ? think these were only fitted to servo/dual line systems during early 80s but your's might have been upgraded - they are horribly unreliable and will cause the kind of issues you are having

am assuming all of the cylinders move, and that the shoes and associated springs are fitted correctly

this is the beasty

Land Rover Series 3 Brake Shuttle Valve NOS on eBay (end time 06-May-10 08:48:11 BST)

Thanks for all the replys we have been at it all day again today. Its very very weird. If we clamp of any of the brake pipes we get a hard pedal if we release all three then its rubbish. It feels like the slave cylinders have too much to do is it possible that the front cylinders are bigger than they should be. They are a little bigger than the rears.
We have check and rtechecked everything. I am absolutely sure there is no air in the pipes at all we have bleed with no air now for a long time.
The only thing that makes some sense is incorrectly adjusted shoes as if i really crank them up i get a solid pedal. The book says to unjust until the shoe makes contact and then release off two sereations is this correct.

jamesf123 said:

Thanks for all the replys we have been at it all day again today. Its very very weird. If we clamp of any of the brake pipes we get a hard pedal if we release all three then its rubbish. It feels like the slave cylinders have too much to do is it possible that the front cylinders are bigger than they should be. They are a little bigger than the rears.
We have check and rtechecked everything. I am absolutely sure there is no air in the pipes at all we have bleed with no air now for a long time.
The only thing that makes some sense is incorrectly adjusted shoes as if i really crank them up i get a solid pedal. The book says to unjust until the shoe makes contact and then release off two sereations is this correct.

Click to expand...

Sounds classic out of adjustment, no amount of bleeding will cure that.
Tighten them until they are jammed solid, not just making contact, then back them off just enough to allow them to turn. It will probably take several attempts to get it right, especially if the drums are getting worn.

have you adjusted the master cylinder correctly?

G

If the springs are fitted to the shoe on the wheel cylinder side they tend to pull the piston in requiring an extra press on the pedal to get them to work ok, check springs go to posyt on wheel cyl sides.

if you clamp all 3 hoses and ok, then undo one at a time to find where the problem is

On the 10" brakes, as fitted to pre 1980 88" Land-Rovers, there is a spring between the backplate and the top of the leading shoe, and another spring connecting both shoes at the bottom. If the top spring is attached incorrectly - for example between the tops of the two shoes or between the trailing shoe and the backplate then you'll get poor pedal pressure. The actuating rod for the master cylinder must also be set to the correct length.

are you able to lock all four wheels using the adjusters?
Leave all four wheels locked up. If the pedal goes to the floor a few times and then is good leave it for a few minutes and try again, if it is still good then the problem is the assembly. Check again all assembly including spring positions and that the shoes are correctly fitted (there are differences in the shoes).