Heater options

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rubix101 said:
Also, no need to sacrifice vital space fitting a diesel heater which uses precious diesel which is not cheap these days - if of course your Landy is a diesel.
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But it uses electricity, which is generated by the alternator, which is turned by the engine, which burns extra diesel to compensate for the load on the alternator. An add-on diesel heater, if you need it, is more efficient! Once you're up to temperature the heating is free as you are using waste heat from the engine that would otherwise be dumped into the radiator. You'd be far better installing a plug-in coolant heater so you start with a warm engine if that's your concern.
 
I tried going down the upgraded alternater/power inverter/split charge leisure battery route ,to get some heat.
It was never very efficient,and was quite expensive,for little return.settled on a autoterm diesel heater in the end,more expensive than a chinese one[russian] but is supposed to be more reliable.And gives plenty of heat,uses very little diesel[20hours running at full power on a gallon].
 
mickyh said:
I tried going down the upgraded alternater/power inverter/split charge leisure battery route ,to get some heat.
It was never very efficient,and was quite expensive,for little return.settled on a autoterm diesel heater in the end,more expensive than a chinese one[russian] but is supposed to be more reliable.And gives plenty of heat,uses very little diesel[20hours running at full power on a gallon].
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As the old saying goes, nothing like setting fire to something to get some proper heat! Food for thought as with the post above - if you run a diesel of course.
 
Obi_110 said:
I've just pulled the heater out of my defender to put in a new heater matrix, and it's all a bit crappy, and most of the vents in the cab are shot.

Before I sink time into restoring all of it, are there any better alternatives you've all retrofitted into a defender, or is the original heater the best?

Thanks
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I know it isn't visually the same but you can get some pretty good heaters that plug into the cig lighter these days
 
FlyingPete said:
But it uses electricity, which is generated by the alternator, which is turned by the engine, which burns extra diesel to compensate for the load on the alternator. An add-on diesel heater, if you need it, is more efficient! Once you're up to temperature the heating is free as you are using waste heat from the engine that would otherwise be dumped into the radiator. You'd be far better installing a plug-in coolant heater so you start with a warm engine if that's your concern.
Click to expand...
Common misconception.

Unless you can find some sort of switched multiphase setup (Suzuki used it in the eighties but I am sure Landrover never caught on) then your alternator is drawing power all the time it is spinning. Turning on electrical gubins does not increase the load.

Any output from the alternator that is not used immediately goes to the battery. Once the battery is fully charged the excess is lost as heat.

I know people are not going to believe me but I offer you the experiment we used to demonstrate this. Take any diesel old enough not to need electricity to run, series, tractor, truck, etc. (Modern ones need it to hold the fuel solenoid open as a bare minimum) Start the engine and disconnect the battery. At tickover turn on all the electrics. You will observe no drop in engine speed. If you need further evidence you can then try to jump start another vehicle from the first. It won't start but you will still observe no drop in revs. DON'T BLAME ME IF YOU MANAGE TO DAMAGE YOUR ANCIENT WIRING IN THE PROCESS.

People often conduct something similar with petrol engines and come to the conclusion that turning on the lights places a load on the engine. The resultant drop in revs that would be observed in this case though is because you have weakened the spark, causing the engine to run slightly less efficiently.
 
Captainmidnight said:
Common misconception.

Unless you can find some sort of switched multiphase setup (Suzuki used it in the eighties but I am sure Landrover never caught on) then your alternator is drawing power all the time it is spinning. Turning on electrical gubins does not increase the load.

Any output from the alternator that is not used immediately goes to the battery. Once the battery is fully charged the excess is lost as heat.

I know people are not going to believe me but I offer you the experiment we used to demonstrate this. Take any diesel old enough not to need electricity to run, series, tractor, truck, etc. (Modern ones need it to hold the fuel solenoid open as a bare minimum) Start the engine and disconnect the battery. At tickover turn on all the electrics. You will observe no drop in engine speed. If you need further evidence you can then try to jump start another vehicle from the first. It won't start but you will still observe no drop in revs. DON'T BLAME ME IF YOU MANAGE TO DAMAGE YOUR ANCIENT WIRING IN THE PROCESS.

People often conduct something similar with petrol engines and come to the conclusion that turning on the lights places a load on the engine. The resultant drop in revs that would be observed in this case though is because you have weakened the spark, causing the engine to run slightly less efficiently.
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I still would not try to heat the old shed from my ancient batteries though.
 
Some people have suggested blocking off the radiator as a way to hasten engine heat. My own experience is that as long as your cooling system is in good order this will not help. The thermostat will not open until the engine has reached operating temperature, by which time you are already getting as much heat as you are going to get.

One thing for the fabricators to try though. My intake hose from the wing was collapsing which restricted power. I took it off while I sourced a new one which took a couple of weeks. During this time my engine was drawing air in close vicinity to the exhaust manifold. This really did help massively in terms of warm up times. I would have left if that way except that once the engine was hot the cooling system was working really hard. I often wondered about constructing some sort of valve to allow air to be drawn from with the engine compartment for warm up but then switched back to the wing for standard running. Way beyond my skills or wallet though.
 
Captainmidnight said:
I know people are not going to believe me but I offer you the experiment we used to demonstrate this. Take any diesel old enough not to need electricity to run, series, tractor, truck, etc. (Modern ones need it to hold the fuel solenoid open as a bare minimum) Start the engine and disconnect the battery. At tickover turn on all the electrics. You will observe no drop in engine speed. If you need further evidence you can then try to jump start another vehicle from the first. It won't start but you will still observe no drop in revs. DON'T BLAME ME IF YOU MANAGE TO DAMAGE YOUR ANCIENT WIRING IN THE PROCESS.
Click to expand...
I do not believe even with your experiment for observations of having a slack alternator belt. Normal running no issue, alternator spins freely with no belt slipping. turn on all additional lighting (at the time 10x 100watt halogens) and the belt would slip, similarly start using the winch and the belt would slip. For the belt to start slipping the alternator must become more difficult to turn and overcome the current level friction. Therefore there must be an increased load on the engine even if it does not alter the revs because the governor compensates. Even the old vacuum governor on the fordson successfully throws extra fuel into the engine to keep the revs up when going up hill with a heavy load. You get some satisfying extra black smoke and if you work it really hard the exhaust starts to glow. now bringing it back to the thread that would make a good heater!
 
@Obi_110 , there's a fellow in Scotland who sells new galvanised heater boxes with internal flaps on eBay. They're very good and not expensive. I bought one of these, T-washed, primed and underhood black painted. It's better than and LR/Sh!tpart replacement. Add in an Alisport matrix, new neoprene seals and line with reflectice insulation and your cab will be toasty.

 
v8250 said:
@Obi_110 , there's a fellow in Scotland who sells new galvanised heater boxes with internal flaps on eBay. They're very good and not expensive. I bought one of these, T-washed, primed and underhood black painted. It's better than and LR/Sh!tpart replacement. Add in an Alisport matrix, new neoprene seals and line with reflectice insulation and your cab will be toasty.

Click to expand...
I've got one also.. amazing quality.
 
dag019 said:
Even the old vacuum governor on the fordson successfully throws extra fuel into the engine to keep the revs up when going up hill with a heavy load. You get some satisfying extra black smoke and if you work it really hard the exhaust starts to glow. now bringing it back to the thread that would make a good heater!
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Your idea sounds much like the system on a Citroen 2cv ,[ Chicken chasers we used to call them] a flap in the ducks over the heads could be opened to send hot air into the cabin.
 
tottot said:
Your idea sounds much like the system on a Citroen 2cv ,[ Chicken chasers we used to call them] a flap in the ducks over the heads could be opened to send hot air into the cabin.
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Thats a good way to get gassed or in a 2cv's case, a way to fill the cab with a hot oily smell :)
VW aircooled bus/beetle has heat exchanges on the exhaust because it has no coolant to run a heater matrix from that connect to floor ducts that meander their way up to the front of the cab, but they too rot with time and eventually send gas into the cab.

On the guy building a rod/custom with ceramic heater. I'd bear in mind that the average street rod/custom doesn't get used in -10 when its snowing like a landrover, so most of the time the heater is cosmetic for the mot tester.
Also I was under the impression that defender alternators are regular externally excited units. In that they have no magnets, and the regulator switches on and off a coil to energise (excite) as a electromagnet . So when there's no demand the coil isnt energized and there's no magnetism to cause load/drag on the engine.

My 90 makes enough heat with a standard heater.
 
MrF said:
Thats a good way to get gassed or in a 2cv's case, a way to fill the cab with a hot oily smell :)
VW aircooled bus/beetle has heat exchanges on the exhaust because it has no coolant to run a heater matrix from that connect to floor ducts that meander their way up to the front of the cab, but they too rot with time and eventually send gas into the cab.

On the guy building a rod/custom with ceramic heater. I'd bear in mind that the average street rod/custom doesn't get used in -10 when its snowing like a landrover, so most of the time the heater is cosmetic for the mot tester.
Also I was under the impression that defender alternators are regular externally excited units. In that they have no magnets, and the regulator switches on and off a coil to energise (excite) as a electromagnet . So when there's no demand the coil isnt energized and there's no magnetism to cause load/drag on the engine.

My 90 makes enough heat with a standard heater.
Click to expand...
I am pretty certain you are correct regarding the alternator not being under if it does not need to be, I.e. the battery is charged
 
Captainmidnight said:
Common misconception.

Unless you can find some sort of switched multiphase setup (Suzuki used it in the eighties but I am sure Landrover never caught on) then your alternator is drawing power all the time it is spinning. Turning on electrical gubins does not increase the load.

Any output from the alternator that is not used immediately goes to the battery. Once the battery is fully charged the excess is lost as heat.
Click to expand...
That's simply not the case.
 
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