Full EV Landy.... Its the future!

Tesla Tom said:

This is one of the conversions available. They do offer a 90, not sure where the batteries go.
https://www.plower.nl/electric-defender

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Note the Range, i've noticed the EV conversion people in the UK are using Kilometers being they're in the netherlands i'll forgive em

260km is 160mi LOL

Whats the price for the conversion

I noticed that too. If it was a genuine 160 miles that would be enough for me. I think that the drag of the T Box doesn't help that design. Theres some more efficiency to be had removing it. I suspect most defender owners rarely do more than 150 miles a day?

Tesla Tom said:

I noticed that too. If it was a genuine 160 miles that would be enough for me. I think that the drag of the T Box doesn't help that design. Theres some more efficiency to be had removing it. I suspect most defender owners rarely do more than 150 miles a day?

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I agree most don't do 150mi a day..

However is that the real range?

The Jaguar and Nissan EV's on Whatcar tests seldom do the "book figure"

And even if it can, i bet that is a "best case scenario" hoon it a bit and i bet the range drops off

However the majority of Defenders tend to work quite hard, I'd be hesitant latching a trailer behind it, assuming it can tow?

I'd also be willing to bet the conversion is more than £15k and i'd ask yourself how far you could drive in your Defender with £15,000 worth of diesel?

Already done that maths! Ive used about £30K of diesel to do 140K miles. So 15k will go quite a long way. My experience with the Tesla is that the WLTP range figure is pretty accurate, and I don't drive slow either. The WLTP is supposed to be an industry standard so all manufacturers should be fairly accurate, though they're bound to exaggerate where they can. I have noticed that the economy is the opposite of what you'd get from a diesel. Its incredibly efficient around town and on slower bendy roads and less efficient on long straight runs.

Tesla Tom said:

Already done that maths! Ive used about £30K of diesel to do 140K miles. So 15k will go quite a long way. My experience with the Tesla is that the WLTP range figure is pretty accurate, and I don't drive slow either. The WLTP is supposed to be an industry standard so all manufacturers should be fairly accurate, though they're bound to exaggerate where they can. I have noticed that the economy is the opposite of what you'd get from a diesel. Its incredibly efficient around town and on slower bendy roads and less efficient on long straight runs.

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Not bad

I do get what you're saying about the diesel efficiency, my D2 seemed more economical around town, maybe its because you trundle around in town and have to HOON them on fast roads

London Electric did one on a 1983 RRC it cost 50k IIRC you'll have to email them, quite a nice bunch
Oh and they got 300km from their conversion

So in the real world before you could benefit from the £8 refill cost of an EV LR you'd have to do over 140k

Oddly they don't list a price!!!!

Perhaps they don't and only throq the bill at you once done!! lol

SURPRISE!! "heart attack"

electric vehicles aren't about saving the planet, they're about making people look and feel good, moving the environmental impact from under your nose
a traditional engine and fuel tank is mostly metal, with some electronics on top. not a huge environmental footprint compared to what goes in to an electric motor and its batteries, when you look at production and the associated recycling afterward

Battery life and motor life seem to be long enough that an EV should do over 200k miles without too much loss of performance. Batteries should still be around 80% by that point. They need to be looked after though. Just like a regular engine I guess. Theres a helluva lot less to wear out on an EV, thats a plus, especially if its direct drive to the axles. So servicing costs are generally much lower.

I think in a few years battery life assessments on second hand EV's will be commonplace, those which have been looked after will make more money than those which haven't.

personally, i think electric will be the way forward when we're at a point of being able to generate electric onboard

kermit_rr said:

electric vehicles aren't about saving the planet, they're about making people look and feel good, moving the environmental impact from under your nose
a traditional engine and fuel tank is mostly metal, with some electronics on top. not a huge environmental footprint compared to what goes in to an electric motor and its batteries, when you look at production and the associated recycling afterward

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Not for me! This isn't about the environment. its about a superior product. I could get the same performance sticking a massive V8 in instead, I just like the idea of electric, plus when the motors spin up they whistle like a turbo and it sounds cool! Maybe not as cool as a massive V8 but still...

Electric will only be a genuinely environmental option when we make most of it using renewables, and thats a way off yet. Personally I'd like to see more nuclear, but then I live near a nuclear station so I'm probably less bothered about it than most.

Tesla Tom said:

Battery life and motor life seem to be long enough that an EV should do over 200k miles without too much loss of performance. Batteries should still be around 80% by that point. They need to be looked after though. Just like a regular engine I guess. Theres a helluva lot less to wear out on an EV, thats a plus, especially if its direct drive to the axles. So servicing costs are generally much lower.

I think in a few years battery life assessments on second hand EV's will be commonplace, those which have been looked after will make more money than those which haven't.

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Not the life span of the batteries that is the issue

Its the fuel cost versus the conversion

Most don't do 140k in their ownership

Tesla Tom said:

Not for me! This isn't about the environment. its about a superior product. I could get the same performance sticking a massive V8 in instead, I just like the idea of electric, plus when the motors spin up they whistle like a turbo and it sounds cool! Maybe not as cool as a massive V8 but still...

Electric will only be a genuinely environmental option when we make most of it using renewables, and thats a way off yet. Personally I'd like to see more nuclear, but then I live near a nuclear station so I'm probably less bothered about it than most.

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Reminds me of this advert

Tesla Tom said:

Not for me! This isn't about the environment. its about a superior product. I could get the same performance sticking a massive V8 in instead, I just like the idea of electric, plus when the motors spin up they whistle like a turbo and it sounds cool! Maybe not as cool as a massive V8 but still...

Electric will only be a genuinely environmental option when we make most of it using renewables, and thats a way off yet. Personally I'd like to see more nuclear, but then I live near a nuclear station so I'm probably less bothered about it than most.

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thats cool, i wasn't having a go at you or your project, my comments are made about EV in general.
if you go ahead, it will make a very interesting project to follow

Henry_b said:

Not the life span of the batteries that is the issue

Its the fuel cost versus the conversion

Most don't do 140k in their ownership

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the most miles i've put on a single car is approaching 70,000 miles

Well this is my 3rd 110, the first I rebuilt from scratch and fitted a brand new engine to. The second was a new 08 2.4 which did 190K miles before we sold it, and the current 2.2 which has done 145k. Since they don't make them any more I have decided to keep the current one, possibly for ever. I was always going to drop another engine in it when the 2.2 died, but I'm now thinking drop a big battery in instead. I just don't really fancy the new defender so keeping mine going seems like the better option.

By the way I see no reason why an electric landy cant tow, it will eat into the range of course, just like it eats into fuel consumption. The tesla tows 1.8 ton which is not bad for a car. I haven't tried it yet though.

it will be able to tow, you'll just be more restricted by GW of the trailer and GTW of car + trailer as you increase the unladen weight of the landy

Thats one of the reasons I'd like to ditch the T Box. thats a few KG saved there, by the time you've ditched the fuel tank, engine and both boxes you've gained a fair bit of available battery weight. The motors only weigh 30KG or so.

Engineering explained goes to some detail as to why EV's aren't great tow cars the energy density of electric cars leaves much to be desired. The current state of battery technology is such that only so much energy can be stored in a package that's not too big for a passenger car. The Model X's 100-kWh battery pack has the most energy storage of any production EV. The EPA certified the Model X Long Range as being able to go 328 miles between charges.

When you add a trailer to the mix, that range goes way down. Fenske details a couple of hypothetical trailering scenarios for a Model X in this video. In one, he simulates a family taking their Model X on a camping trip, driving 100 miles up a 1-percent grade at 75 mph. Factoring the 5500-pound weight of the Model X itself, plus 500 lb of payload and 5000 lb of trailer, increased drag coefficient from the trailer, rolling resistance, and gravity, Fenske calculates that 100.4 kWh is needed to make that trip. In other words, you'd need to recharge to make it.

That's not factoring use of HVAC and other ancillary systems either. Fenske calculates that doing the same trip without the trailer would only take around half the energy, and towing the trailer at 60 mph requires 84 kWh of energy. Essentially, a trailer can kill EV driving range.

For comparison, he runs the same 75-mph trailering uphill scenario with a Ford F-150. That truck comes with a choice of 23- or 36-gallon fuel tanks. Given that a gallon of gas is equivalent to 33 kWh of energy, that means the Ford has around 775 to 1200 kWh of energy capacity. The trip would require 170 kWh of energy, so the 23-gallon F-150 would only need to operate at around 21 percent efficiency to do it, while the 36-gallon truck only needs to work at around 14 percent.

Fenske also runs some numbers on the Tesla Cybertruck based on preliminary specs, and calculates how the Model X trip would go with no incline and going downhill. The numbers are a lot better, but still a ways off the F-150 going uphill.

So while you can tow with an EV, they won't be practical tow vehicles until their energy capacity increases significantly. When the Model X offers a 200- or 300-kWh battery pack, towing long distances will be much more practical.

Tesla Tom said:

Thats one of the reasons I'd like to ditch the T Box. thats a few KG saved there, by the time you've ditched the fuel tank, engine and both boxes you've gained a fair bit of available battery weight. The motors only weigh 30KG or so.

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Splitting the power between the front and rear wheels is the reason we have Transfer boxes as you know

How will you split the power without a transfer box?

One motor drives the rear axle and the other drives the front. Theres no physical connection between the two. Like driving in diff lock but without the wind up.

If you go with a single motor they yes you're going to need a T Box/ diff of some kind.