Freelander Project IV (Bertie)

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Alibro said:
Oh Bollix! :mad:
Apparently 16" wheels off a 99 or 00 Freelander won't fit over the brakes on an 02 Freelander :oops:
I knew the 15" wheels wouldn't fit but it never occurred the 16" wheels won't fit either. There is no way they'll fit without wheel spacers so now trying to decide whether to go that way or just look for the correct wheels and get the tyres swapped over.

Edit. I just checked the price of spacers and I think swapping the tyres over onto the correct wheels will be a fraction of the price.
Grrrrrrrrrr
Click to expand...

That's correct Ali. I thought you knew that, which is why the didn't say anything. :(
You can get away with some shim spacers. Those would be fine. Maybe with longer studs for extra security.
The offset is different on the earlier 16s too. But again, shim spacers will correct that too. ;)
 
Joe_H said:
Yikes ! :( .. that is a shock...

edit - could you please check if there is a part number on them - so I know the ones to avoid :confused:
Click to expand...
I can look at the PN on my 16s stored at home later. Mine are off my 2005 SE so will definitely fit all Freelanders. I think the PN of the 16" Freedom alloys should be RRC114780MNH. I'll confirm that later

As a quick check. The wheels that have small dimples between the studs will also fit. However the dimples were dropped circa 2004, so non dimpled wheels can be before 2000 or after 2004. My 2005 SE 16s, don't have dimples.
 
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Nodge68 said:
I can look at the PN on my 16s stored at home later. Mine are off my 2005 SE so will definitely fit all Freelanders. I think the PN of the 16" Freedom alloys should be RRC114780MNH. I'll confirm that later

As a quick check. The wheels that have small dimples between the studs will also fit. However the dimples were dropped circa 2004, so non dimpled wheels can be before 2000 or after 2004. My 2005 SE 16s, don't have dimples.
Click to expand...
Thanks mate, that would be very helpful.
Joe
 
Just for my edification, what is the difference between early and late brakes? My 2001 FL has vented front discs - and if I recall correctly, the earlier cars use non-vented discs - so presumably the caliper is deeper?

I've been wondering about getting a spare set of wheels - and this sounds quite a pit fall. Sorry you found the problem Alibro!

Nodge, any wheel with dimples between the wheel studs will fit the later cars? (My 16" Tri-sports have dimples!)
 
rob_bell said:
Just for my edification, what is the difference between early and late brakes? My 2001 FL has vented front discs - and if I recall correctly, the earlier cars use non-vented discs - so presumably the caliper is deeper?

I've been wondering about getting a spare set of wheels - and this sounds quite a pit fall. Sorry you found the problem Alibro!

Nodge, any wheel with dimples between the wheel studs will fit the later cars? (My 16" Tri-sports have dimples!)
Click to expand...
Hi Rob, on the later disks - vented - the caliper is not only 'deeper' to accommodate the vents but displaced further from the centre point of the hub due to the vented discs having a greater diameter than the solid

Early discs are 262mm (Diameter) solid
Later discs are 277mm (Diameter) vented

Just over 11% difference in surface area and pad area.
The thickness of the disks when new are 14mm for solid and 21mm for vents. (a difference of 7 mm)
The disc rear face (inward face) to outer hub face - the height of _==_ top to bottom (lovely drawing eh lol :) ) is quoted as 51 mm on both so the extra thickness of the vents is in-between the rear face of the disc and the outer face of the 'top hat' of the disc.
These were the only two sizes of discs used, and also, from research there are only two types of calipers on the full range - the solid disc and vented disk type.
Nodge advised today that the hub is the same size on the whole range with only small differences in bearing size or location of abs sensor. The main outer hub dimensions are all the same.
Hope that helps.. The wheel is a real gotcha on the 16". I await the part numbers - hopefully from ALi's early ones and Nodge's later ones to use when perusing to buy.
Joe
 
Joe_H said:
Hi Rob, on the later disks - vented - the caliper is not only 'deeper' to accommodate the vents but displaced further from the centre point of the hub due to the vented discs having a greater diameter than the solid

Early discs are 262mm (Diameter) solid
Later discs are 277mm (Diameter) vented

Just over 11% difference in surface area and pad area.
The thickness of the disks when new are 14mm for solid and 21mm for vents. (a difference of 7 mm)
The disc rear face (inward face) to outer hub face - the height of _==_ top to bottom (lovely drawing eh lol :) ) is quoted as 51 mm on both so the extra thickness of the vents is in-between the rear face of the disc and the outer face of the 'top hat' of the disc.
These were the only two sizes of discs used, and also, from research there are only two types of calipers on the full range - the solid disc and vented disk type.
Nodge advised today that the hub is the same size on the whole range with only small differences in bearing size or location of abs sensor. The main outer hub dimensions are all the same.
Hope that helps.. The wheel is a real gotcha on the 16". I await the part numbers - hopefully from ALi's early ones and Nodge's later ones to use when perusing to buy.
Joe
Click to expand...

Here's the PN for my 05 SE Freedom alloys.
20161006_181838.jpg
 
Freedom is the style that is most popular. It was available in 5 spoke 16" and 17" 6 spoke sizes.
This is a 16" Freedom alloy.
20160921_180122.jpg

Annoyingly it was available in pre and post 2000 fitments. This makes buying them a lottery unless the PN can be checked.
 
Nodge68 said:
That's correct Ali. I thought you knew that, which is why the didn't say anything. :(
You can get away with some shim spacers. Those would be fine. Maybe with longer studs for extra security.
The offset is different on the earlier 16s too. But again, shim spacers will correct that too. ;)
Click to expand...
Thanks Nodge, I'll look into that. I'm going to put some washers on the studs to work out what I need. If it is only 5mm I'd be happy to use shims as they're not too expensive. Much more and the studs would need replaced like you said and I'm not going that way after the fun I had replacing the studs on the N/S rear. I'll check it out and report back with the part number of the wheels too.
The stupid thing is I had the wheels sitting there for the last week and could have test fitted them anytime, it would have taken minutes to do as the wheels weren't even on the car. :oops:
 
I'm sure thin spacers of 5 or 6mm is all that's needed to get you out of trouble Ali.
It's a pretty you didn't trial fit the rims before fitting the tyres. These things are sent to try us through :(
 
Nodge68 said:
I'm sure thin spacers of 5 or 6mm is all that's needed to get you out of trouble Ali.
It's a pretty you didn't trial fit the rims before fitting the tyres. These things are sent to try us through :(
Click to expand...
Go on then, kick him while he's down why don't ya. :confused:

LOL, only messin' I know I was a pillock but thankfully I checked tonight and it looks like 3mm could be enough but will order 5mm shims to be on the safe side. With the 3mm washers the wheels were only a whisker away from the brakes and I'd be concerned they could touch or cause a problem while off roading.
4 of these ordered.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-4-X-5MM...hash=item5d60dc4532:m:maIYjmY5mV35S2HtHvtjAxA
They might be rubbish but are cheap enough to take a punt. If they prove to be a problem I'll have to rethink the issue.
 
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On a happier note with the wheels on and set back on the ground my wee Freeby is sitting really high. At one point tonight I was refitting the IRD breather pipe (which looks like it hasn't been connected for years) and I was able to easily crawl under the car without jacking it up. I'll get some photo's when I get him out of the garage but it looks like I've achieved the 3" - 4" lift I was hoping for. :) I also fitted the new MAF so will try to get some voltage readings off it tomorrow to see if it makes any difference.
 
Joe_H said:
Hi Rob, on the later disks - vented - the caliper is not only 'deeper' to accommodate the vents but displaced further from the centre point of the hub due to the vented discs having a greater diameter than the solid

Early discs are 262mm (Diameter) solid
Later discs are 277mm (Diameter) vented

Just over 11% difference in surface area and pad area.
The thickness of the disks when new are 14mm for solid and 21mm for vents. (a difference of 7 mm)
The disc rear face (inward face) to outer hub face - the height of _==_ top to bottom (lovely drawing eh lol :) ) is quoted as 51 mm on both so the extra thickness of the vents is in-between the rear face of the disc and the outer face of the 'top hat' of the disc.
These were the only two sizes of discs used, and also, from research there are only two types of calipers on the full range - the solid disc and vented disk type.
Nodge advised today that the hub is the same size on the whole range with only small differences in bearing size or location of abs sensor. The main outer hub dimensions are all the same.
Hope that helps.. The wheel is a real gotcha on the 16". I await the part numbers - hopefully from ALi's early ones and Nodge's later ones to use when perusing to buy.
Joe
Click to expand...
Thanks - useful info! :D

Alibro said:
On a happier note with the wheels on and set back on the ground my wee Freeby is sitting really high. At one point tonight I was refitting the IRD breather pipe (which looks like it hasn't been connected for years) and I was able to easily crawl under the car without jacking it up. I'll get some photo's when I get him out of the garage but it looks like I've achieved the 3" - 4" lift I was hoping for. :) I also fitted the new MAF so will try to get some voltage readings off it tomorrow to see if it makes any difference.
Click to expand...

Wow - I am really looking forward to seeing what the car looks like! I guess you'll be beefing up the engine undertray too?
 
Alibro said:
Go on then, kick him while he's down why don't ya. :confused:

LOL, only messin' I know I was a pillock but thankfully I checked tonight and it looks like 3mm could be enough but will order 5mm shims to be on the safe side. With the 3mm washers the wheels were only a whisker away from the brakes and I'd be concerned they could touch or cause a problem while off roading.
4 of these ordered.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-4-X-5MM...hash=item5d60dc4532:m:maIYjmY5mV35S2HtHvtjAxA
They might be rubbish but are cheap enough to take a punt. If they prove to be a problem I'll have to rethink the issue.
Click to expand...
Hi Ali
Would be very interested in your thoughts re the spacers when you get them please.
I am ordering the TD4 calipers and new disks, but the wheels will be a tad too expensive to ship here.
Am going to go for the existing 15" units with a spacer. If you like them and they seem to do the job well I will give them a go
Cheers
Joe
 
Joe_H said:
Hi Ali
Would be very interested in your thoughts re the spacers when you get them please.
I am ordering the TD4 calipers and new disks, but the wheels will be a tad too expensive to ship here.
Am going to go for the existing 15" units with a spacer. If you like them and they seem to do the job well I will give them a go
Cheers
Joe
Click to expand...
No problem Joe, They should be here in a day or two. To be honest I'm not expecting much and may have to jerry rig some way to keep the centred but will report back.
 
rob_bell said:
Thanks - useful info! :D



Wow - I am really looking forward to seeing what the car looks like! I guess you'll be beefing up the engine undertray too?
Click to expand...
I already have a beefed up tray from my last car so will use it. Probably with a bit more reinforcing.
20160701_123005_zpswup5xqiq.jpg

20160701_123036_zps0ngxfx2w.jpg

20160702_185049_zpsjaabpetm.jpg

20160702_185111_zpsoknptthv.jpg

20160702_185116_zpsrrsksioh.jpg


It has a few dents since these were taken as the car was sitting on a rock with the front wheels in the air hence the desire for more ground clearance. :p
 
Alibro said:
No problem Joe, They should be here in a day or two. To be honest I'm not expecting much and may have to jerry rig some way to keep the centred but will report back.
Click to expand...
Thanks Ali, really appreciated.
Depending on your thoughts and observations when you have them, I might even try to get some made up over here - there is a turning company a few clicks from here. I can give them a disk brake to works from and centre size.

Of course, there is always the method of cutting the hub face off an old disk as well - have done that years ago !.

I don't know how much thickness I will need at this stage. I can get studs if needed - I believe you had deep joy with them though :( ... I think they are M12 x 1.5 with a 13.1 spline. Length standard is about 51mm I think.. there are lots of longer ones about --- but.... the change over ..... Like you, 5 or 6 mm even and I will use plates and standard studs
 
Probably easier to grind a few mill off the calipers. I only needed three millimeters to clear the wheels and they're probably over engineered anyway.
 
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Before touching the car I took photos and today I took a couple with the new wheels and tyres plus 50mm lift kit.

Before
20160820_180038_zps9uqib8ue.jpg


After
20161008_170819_zpsvcb3dcmj.jpg


I kinda expected the rear wheel to move a forward a little with the lift kit but didn't expect it to move quite so much. Not too bothered though but it would be nice to be able to lengthen the swinging arm and move the rear wheel back to the middle of the wheel arch.
Looks like around 4" higher than standard which is exactly what I was hoping for.
Very pleased.:)
 
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FWIW Warren at MuddyMods now has 5mm spacers.
I reckon my 70 series tyres have given me about an extra inch of lift. I've decided not to fit my 50mm lift kit
as SWMBO wasn't impressed at having to get into the Hippo with just the change from the tyres. :oops:
 
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