Freelander 1 Freelander EV

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GrumpyGel said:
I've missed out on so much as your thread wasn't coming up on my alerts.

It has meant though that I've just had a great read catching up :D

Well done Ali, the motor is looking fantastic.
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Aw thanks mate, I appreciate that.
Unfortunately there won't be much action here for a while as my mother in law sadly passed away yesterday.
She was 91 and had a great life so not a tragedy but still very sad.
 
GrumpyGel said:
Sorry for you and your family Ali. 91's a great life, there must be plenty to celebrate even in grief.
Click to expand...
Thanks mate. She was a wonderful amazing lady who could remember people and their entire family and everything about them from years ago. I've never met anyone with a memory for people like her. All of my wife's family are really genuine nice people.
 
The mother in law had a great send off yesterday. She will be missed by all of us as she was such a larger than life character.
However she would have been the first to scold if we sat around moping so between spending time with the family I managed to get a couple of hours on the car today.

A few weeks ago I completed the plumbing, apart from connecting the radiator but I had the pipes in place so the final connection would be simple. However one night while sleep was avoiding me it occurred that I hadn't checked for leaks and if I continued installing the batteries etc that fixing any leaks might mean stripping it down again.
So when I had a free hour today I connected the radiator and poured clean water in to see what would happen. Pretty much as expected it immediately air locked so I hooked up the coolant pump and after a few seconds the water started circulating albeit with a lot of gurgling.
And the good news is there were no leaks, however the not so good news is
1. the washing up liquid I had used to get some of the pipework on was causing a lot of foam and
2. I hadn't properly allowed for bleeding.
I think I have the foaming issue mostly sorted by lots of flushing but still have a bit more to do and I think I've figured out a way to bleed it so am happy to carry on with the batteries.
 
After dropping my son and his girlfriend back to the airport to fly home to Stoke, I had another look at the plumbing again this evening. I found one of the Freelander bleed valves and fitted it to the highest point that was accessible.

IMG_20230807_203954896.jpg
IMG_20230807_204000033.jpg


It looks like this will work fine as after a few minutes there was minimal bubbles appearing both here and at the header tank and the pump sounded like it had a good supply of fluid.

So then I had a look at the heater circuit and flushed it through with clean water. I wanted to try and remove any OAT from the heater matrix as I guessed it would still be full and I am using the blue antifreeze instead. Thankfully no leaks from it either and it bled itself in seconds too. Once clean I refilled it with antifreeze as I don't think I will need to go near it again, the coolant circuit was emptied as I need to remove the radiator to finish the battery installation.

IMG_20230807_204033818.jpg
 
Having come down with the lurgy I've been feeling a bit rough the last couple of days so decided to do something that didn't require too much effort and a bit of soldering seemed to fit the bill. This is the front battery box which holds 6 large modules.

IMG_20230809_214925739.jpg


I had to work out which connection would go where so hopefully I got it right as there are 24 solder joints with two layers of heatshrink and I don't fancy having to redo them. :oops:

Obviously I need to tidy up the wires but once done I can go ahead and install the covers then think about the last battery box and HV junction box which bolts onto it.
 
Once the front 6 modules were sorted I moved to the final four that sit beside the inverter.
Of course when fitting them I realised I had done things in the wrong order and had to take the top two of the six modules off again to get access for the securing bolts but that was no big deal.
This is the final battery box and four modules installed and the BMS wires connected.

IMG_20230812_185837390.jpg


And the wires tidied up.

IMG_20230813_152437908.jpg


When looking at this photo it occurred I shouldn't have cable tied to a bolt without a bit of extra insulation so that was done.
Next job is to finish the redesign of the HV junction box and get it screwed to the lid of this box.
 
Just out of curiosity, this impressive build has been progressing over some time and you've had some of the kit for a while and I'm wondering, do the batteries need any sort of topping up charging whilst works are ongoing to maintain their life?
 
kernowsvenski said:
Just out of curiosity, this impressive build has been progressing over some time and you've had some of the kit for a while and I'm wondering, do the batteries need any sort of topping up charging whilst works are ongoing to maintain their life?
Click to expand...
Good question but it seems they hold their charge pretty well.
Having said that when I bought the batteries they were sitting at around 3.7V which is their happy place. Neither charged nor discharged so at the storage voltage for Li-Ion batteries.
I have charged them a little bit once since then but still to see how they get on long term.
 
kernowsvenski said:
Just out of curiosity, this impressive build has been progressing over some time and you've had some of the kit for a while and I'm wondering, do the batteries need any sort of topping up charging whilst works are ongoing to maintain their life?
Click to expand...
The NMC lithium technology used does have a self discharge, but it's tiny, something like 1% of remaining capacity per month. So they would need a recharge once a year or something, nothing more than that should be needed.
 
Today was a big day as I finally completed the HV connections.
This is the boot box completely connected along with a new addition.

IMG_20230817_163456397.jpg


I decided a manual disconnect would be a good idea so put one in line with the positive line out.

IMG_20230817_163532256.jpg


In the photo above You can see the pos comes from the pack, goes through a fuse into a contactor then through the manual disconnect before going to the external connector. In theory it was unnecessary as the contactors should ensure the cables cannot be live with the ignition turned off but I figured it was a good idea to have an extra manual safety. Contactors can weld short circuit if things go wrong so better safe than sorry.
Only the low voltage connections need sorting at the back now and I plan to use the fuel pump cable to drive all the contactors but it is handy that the cables are already at the back. I was thinking if I used the fuel pump power in the event of an accident the safety breaker would trip thereby turning off the HV.
I haven't completed the BMS connections at the back as it will be easy to lift the lid and complete this later so I'm pushing on with getting the car on the road. Also it turns out I have an issue with the BMS due to the way I've split the pack. The Leaf BMS was designed to be split at cell 48 and is galvanically isolated at this point to protect it but I'm breaking the pack at cell 56 so the BMS will not be protected if one of the HV components in the car play silly beggars. Basically the BMS will be the path of HV and would not be happy about it.
I'm still trying to work out how to manage this but others have had issues so I'm not sure there is an easy fix, I might just leave the BMS disconnected 99% of the time and plug it in once a month or so with the pack live just to check the cell balance.
It's a long way from ideal but not a disaster.
 
Last edited:
Alibro said:
Today was a big day as I finally completed the HV connections.
This is the boot box completely connected along with a new addition.

View attachment 295530

I decided a manual disconnect would be a good idea so put one in line with the positive line out.

View attachment 295531

In the photo above You can see the pos comes from the pack, goes through a fuse into a contactor then through the manual disconnect before going to the external connector. In theory it was unnecessary as the contactors should ensure the cables cannot be live with the ignition turned off but I figured it was a good idea to have an extra manual safety. Contactors can weld short circuit if things go wrong so better safe than sorry.
Only the low voltage connections need sorting at the back now and I plan to use the fuel pump cable to drive all the contactors but it is handy that the cables are already at the back. I was thinking if I used the fuel pump power in the event of an accident the safety breaker would trip thereby turning off the HV.
I haven't completed the BMS connections at the back as it will be easy to lift the lid and complete this later so I'm pushing on with getting the car on the road. Also it turns out I have an issue with the BMS due to the way I've split the pack. The Leaf BMS was designed to be split at cell 48 and is galvanically isolated at this point to protect it but I'm breaking the pack at cell 56 so the BMS will not be protected if one of the HV components in the car play silly beggars. Basically the BMS will be the path of HV and would not be happy about it.
I'm still trying to work out how to manage this but others have had issues so I'm not sure there is an easy fix, I might just leave the BMS disconnected 99% of the time and plug it in once a month or so with the pack live just to check the cell balance.
It's a long way from ideal but not a disaster.
Click to expand...
I've been reading up on BMSs. I atill haven't worked out if they are the most simple of things.... or the most complex!

You'll obviously want to use what came with your donor components, buy there's all sorts of optoons avaliable and they are a lot of money.
 
GrumpyGel said:
I've been reading up on BMSs. I atill haven't worked out if they are the most simple of things.... or the most complex!

You'll obviously want to use what came with your donor components, buy there's all sorts of options avaliable and they are a lot of money.
Click to expand...
You're 100% right mate, even Open Source BMS are expensive due to the number of cells being monitored.
I'm comfortable going with the strategy above where I'll plug it in for a few hours every month or two as I've been advised not to connect it as is.

The following came from an experienced EV builder in Openinverter.
"The Leaf BMS has galvanic isolation between cell 48 and 49. So if the breaker is placed there no current can flow via the BMS and destroy it. When you split the pack somewhere else the BMS provides a current path when the breaker is open. We have destroyed many Leaf BMSes at Clipper Cab because they split the pack at 24/25 and 72/73 and then somehow we managed to run current.

Conclusion: not recommended"

And this from the guy he was referring to who is converting old taxis to EV.
"Yeah, don't put the disconnects in another place, I have done that and it was stupid and I burnt more than one BMS that way."

So the lid is on the battery box and I've moved back to the front of the car where I'm in the process of connecting up the HV junction box.

IMG_20230818_111356442.jpg

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