Freelander 1 smoke on start-up - TD4 05 plate

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Little Dark One

Little Dark One

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Reading
Hello Folks

Over the last few months my Freelander 1 TD4 (05 plate) has become increasingly smokey on start up. This is now very very bad in the morning (also lumpy for a while) but also is a bit smokey if there has been a couple of hours between start ups. The smoke is white in colour which would indicate diesel not oil, it's getting to the stage now it's embarrassing (let alone the environment) and I don't want to go to a car park because what it will do to folk.

I brought it in to a diesel specialist garage, after a lot of faffing about (about 6 days of faffing) they changed 2 injectors, I collected the Freelander yesterday, paid £750, the temp gauge was about 2/3 hot (so it had been run fairly recently) and a small puff of smoke came out of the exhaust, i thought that was a bit odd but drove home. I've just started the Freelander this morning and the whole road is full of smoke again, just as bad as it was before.

I'm just about to go back to the garage, I am severely peed off, the fault I told them has not improved one bit (massive amounts of smoke on start up) and they have given the car back to me with nothing resolved. I'm just about to go back to the garage to see what they have to say for themselves, I am so peed off I'm thinking this could end up in legal action. Sorry to express my vexation but I couldn't really afford the £750 in the first place.

Any thoughts please?

Thanks
LDO
 
Little Dark One said:
Hello Folks

Over the last few months my Freelander 1 TD4 (05 plate) has become increasingly smokey on start up. This is now very very bad in the morning (also lumpy for a while) but also is a bit smokey if there has been a couple of hours between start ups. The smoke is white in colour which would indicate diesel not oil, it's getting to the stage now it's embarrassing (let alone the environment) and I don't want to go to a car park because what it will do to folk.

I brought it in to a diesel specialist garage, after a lot of faffing about (about 6 days of faffing) they changed 2 injectors, I collected the Freelander yesterday, paid £750, the temp gauge was about 2/3 hot (so it had been run fairly recently) and a small puff of smoke came out of the exhaust, i thought that was a bit odd but drove home. I've just started the Freelander this morning and the whole road is full of smoke again, just as bad as it was before.

I'm just about to go back to the garage, I am severely peed off, the fault I told them has not improved one bit (massive amounts of smoke on start up) and they have given the car back to me with nothing resolved. I'm just about to go back to the garage to see what they have to say for themselves, I am so peed off I'm thinking this could end up in legal action. Sorry to express my vexation but I couldn't really afford the £750 in the first place.

Any thoughts please?

Thanks
LDO
Click to expand...
p.s. It's done 60,000 miles
 
Little Dark One said:
Hello Folks

Over the last few months my Freelander 1 TD4 (05 plate) has become increasingly smokey on start up. This is now very very bad in the morning (also lumpy for a while) but also is a bit smokey if there has been a couple of hours between start ups. The smoke is white in colour which would indicate diesel not oil, it's getting to the stage now it's embarrassing (let alone the environment) and I don't want to go to a car park because what it will do to folk.

I brought it in to a diesel specialist garage, after a lot of faffing about (about 6 days of faffing) they changed 2 injectors, I collected the Freelander yesterday, paid £750, the temp gauge was about 2/3 hot (so it had been run fairly recently) and a small puff of smoke came out of the exhaust, i thought that was a bit odd but drove home. I've just started the Freelander this morning and the whole road is full of smoke again, just as bad as it was before.

I'm just about to go back to the garage, I am severely peed off, the fault I told them has not improved one bit (massive amounts of smoke on start up) and they have given the car back to me with nothing resolved. I'm just about to go back to the garage to see what they have to say for themselves, I am so peed off I'm thinking this could end up in legal action. Sorry to express my vexation but I couldn't really afford the £750 in the first place.

Any thoughts please?

Thanks
LDO
Click to expand...
I don't wish to speak for the mighty Nodge, but I imagine he'll tell you to check the glow plugs, and maybe try a good dose of injector cleaner.

Having said that, if you're considering action against the garage, it may be better to take it to a Land Rover independent who knows Freelanders. They should be able to sort it, and provide documentation which will help in the case.

Take a deep breath and count to ten before confronting the first garage - going in there all shouting and stroppy will cause them to close ranks and give you a hard time.
 
Well I've just got back from the garage, took and deep breath and counted to 10 (thanks guineafowl21), I explained that the fault of horrendous amounts of smoke on start-up is still there. I am dropping off the car tomorrow for them to take a look at, I will take a video of it tomorrow morning.

Now the crunch time will be the next meeting after they have looked at it. To my mind they have quoted a price and they have told me they have fixed my car, they haven't fixed my car, who will be responsible for any additional repairs should they occur?

I think the next meeting is going to be interesting...

Thanks for the replies.
 
Little Dark One said:
Well I've just got back from the garage, took and deep breath and counted to 10 (thanks guineafowl21), I explained that the fault of horrendous amounts of smoke on start-up is still there. I am dropping off the car tomorrow for them to take a look at, I will take a video of it tomorrow morning.

Now the crunch time will be the next meeting after they have looked at it. To my mind they have quoted a price and they have told me they have fixed my car, they haven't fixed my car, who will be responsible for any additional repairs should they occur?

I think the next meeting is going to be interesting...

Thanks for the replies.
Click to expand...
Did you get a receipt and does it say what work they did written on it?
 
guineafowl21 said:
I don't wish to speak for the mighty Nodge, but I imagine he'll tell you to check the glow plugs, and maybe try a good dose of injector cleaner.
Click to expand...
Glow plugs yes. I'd also suggest injector cleaner for old injectors. New injectors are a different kettle of fish;)
Definitely I would have changed the glow plugs first. I'd also be asking how the injectors were diagnosed as faulty. TD4 injectors generally last well into the 100,000 miles range. Is the EGR valve still active? If so, when was the inlet manifold last cleaned out? When was the crankcase filter last changed?
There are a multitude of things that cause smoke and missing at startup. Sadly, the injectors are the most expensive and least likely to be it.
 
Here is the description of work attached

Cheers
 

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It's easy to criticise from my 'armchair', but:

1. To read the codes, not record them and delete them seems amateurish.
2. No mention of looking at the glow plugs on a hard-cold-start diesel?
3. No leak back test?
4. Common rail injectors are surely better all removed and tested first as last - a balanced set. I mean, they've already stripped it down, and they have the removal and test kit right there...
5. To keep it 6 days and hand it back unfixed shows they either don't care or are too busy to care.

That's what I'd be thinking if this had happened to me.
 
guineafowl21 said:
It's easy to criticise from my 'armchair', but:

1. To read the codes, not record them and delete them seems amateurish.
2. No mention of looking at the glow plugs on a hard-cold-start diesel?
3. No leak back test?
4. Common rail injectors are surely better all removed and tested first as last - a balanced set. I mean, they've already stripped it down, and they have the removal and test kit right there...
5. To keep it 6 days and hand it back unfixed shows they either don't care or are too busy to care.

That's what I'd be thinking if this had happened to me.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Who reads the codes, deletes them, and doesn't record them?
Then doesn't change the glow plugs on a hard to start when cold diesel.:confused:

I like the description "remove various parts of engine". Presumably they mean the top cover, spill pipes and injector harness. That's 15 minutes work, tops. I can't see how they made swapping out 2 injectors and little else, into 5.5Hrs work. It's obviously still not sorted, so the injectors weren't likely the problem. However having an unbalanced set, can cause issues of it's own.
 
Hi guineafowl21

Yes I know, this is my first diesel, I've always done my own work on various cars I've have had in the past, just with lack of space (car parked on road) to work on the car at the moment I thought I would bite the bullet and just use a garage this time. I have been reading up on the issue / watching various videos etc and I do agree with what you have written,

Really not happy as I have been quite cute as to not getting ripped off up until now (25 years driving), I guess you live and learn but as I say it's purely down to circumstance / space I have not done the initial work myself.

It's the handing it back unfixed that's baking my little brain??? I mean WTF??? Never heard of this before, it's a bit surreal to me to be honest.

Cheers
 
Last edited:
A question if you wouldn't mind pls? You mentioned the glow-plus should be looked at first, are the glow-plugs used on all start-ups? This is my first diesel so I have a steepish learning curve but I thought they just kicked in with low temperatures (<4degC).

Thanks
 
The ECM (engine computer) controls glow plug timing dependent on temperature information from the coolant temp sensor (another possible failure point - did you have a code for the ECT sensor? Oh, no they deleted them all).

I'm not sure when exactly the ECM decides to activate the glow plugs, but a hard cold start in a diesel always warrants a check of them anyway - it's easy.
 
You see I've never had the glow plug light come on to heat the plugs, it illuminates with all the lights when the key goes to the first position but then goes off with all the other lights / warning lights that aren't warranted to be on. I'm sure the manual says the light will be illuminated when the plugs are heating.The thing is it's very warm weather at the moment so I don't see how they would be needed? Thing is it's going to be back with the doughnuts at the garage tomorrow morning, I will mention this to them and see what they say, to my mind it's back in their court to fix now as they have £750 of my hard earned lolly and gave me back an unfixed car.
 
guineafowl21 said:
It's easy to criticise from my 'armchair', but:

1. To read the codes, not record them and delete them seems amateurish.
2. No mention of looking at the glow plugs on a hard-cold-start diesel?
3. No leak back test?
4. Common rail injectors are surely better all removed and tested first as last - a balanced set. I mean, they've already stripped it down, and they have the removal and test kit right there...
5. To keep it 6 days and hand it back unfixed shows they either don't care or are too busy to care.

That's what I'd be thinking if this had happened to me.
Click to expand...
And still charge for it. Lets not forget that
 
Little Dark One said:
You see I've never had the glow plug light come on to heat the plugs, it illuminates with all the lights when the key goes to the first position but then goes off with all the other lights / warning lights that aren't warranted to be on. I'm sure the manual says the light will be illuminated when the plugs are heating.The thing is it's very warm weather at the moment so I don't see how they would be needed? Thing is it's going to be back with the doughnuts at the garage tomorrow morning, I will mention this to them and see what they say, to my mind it's back in their court to fix now as they have £750 of my hard earned lolly and gave me back an unfixed car.
Click to expand...
Glow plug control is slightly more complex than you make out. Rave touches on pre-heat and post-heat strategies, and also feedback from the plugs to the ECM. I don't think the light on the dash correlates exactly with the glow plugs being on or off.

Anyway, worth a check.
 
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