Fitting New Oil Pump

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Al2O3 said:
I think I'll be hitting the Guinness early tonight!
A new timing belt cover is £337.00 on Turner Engineering site. Haven't looked elsewhere yet.
How do those things NOT wear? It's a set of steel rotors just rubbing around in an aluminium housing!!!!! :mad::mad::mad: Someone is going to tell me there is a film of oil between, I know. Mind is racing. :(
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try your old gears but measure on the opposite side
 
jamesmartin said:
not necessarily ,your supposed to measure on that side,and what of your old gears as i presume oil pressure was no issue
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I've no idea if oil pressure was an issue before, James. Not that I was aware of. In my naivety, I thought for £30 it was well worth changing the oil pump while I was in there. Naive because I hadn't considered wear on the casing, idiot!
 
Al2O3 said:
I've no idea if oil pressure was an issue before, James. Not that I was aware of. In my naivety, I thought for £30 it was well worth changing the oil pump while I was in there. Naive because I hadn't considered wear on the casing, idiot!
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you arent sure it is worn,as your feeler doesnt go in, you dont know its not diameter of the new gears unless youve checked against the old
 
jamesmartin said:
you arent sure it is worn,as your feeler doesnt go in, you dont know its not diameter of the new gears unless youve checked against the old
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The new gears are a much tighter fit, but still too much gap at bottom right where I tested it before.
I've just tried the new gears in there again and tried measuring on the opposite side.
IMG_6036.JPG

Can't get my gauges in, but as you say, I need another set of finer gauges. The tolerances are so small I can't imagine any casing staying within them for very long.
 
Al2O3 said:
The new gears are a much tighter fit, but still too much gap at bottom right where I tested it before.
I've just tried the new gears in there again and tried measuring on the opposite side.
View attachment 121582
Can't get my gauges in, but as you say, I need another set of finer gauges. The tolerances are so small I can't imagine any casing staying within them for very long.
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measure it but few ever meet the book tolerances, 8 thou is a good bit but it should be measured opposite there,it only needs to have a close spot so oil cant readily flow around the pump rather than through
 
jamesmartin said:
measure it but few ever meet the book tolerances, 8 thou is a good bit but it should be measured opposite there,it only needs to have a close spot so oil cant readily flow around the pump rather than through
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The 8 thou is with the old gears, James. The new gears a lot better, but can't check exactly until I get another set of gauges. Just looking at the book clearances converted to thou from the metric ones given. They are 1 thou to 3 thou.

EDIT
That 8 thou was bottom right position.
 
neilly said:
As an approximation a piece of std weight A4 white paper is approx 0.1mm / 4 thou thick if you ever need it in a pinch.

Cheers
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Good to know, neilly.

Disco1BFG said:
:) - agreed - I was just wondering how badly ( or not ! ) worn this pump was after 180K miles - out of interest :)
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What would be even better is data to show what wear gives what oil pressure.
Also, it would be interesting to know what sort of wear people have found in their oil pumps.
I'll never know, but it would have been interesting to know what my oil pressure was prior to all this.
 
Well the main thing is that you want it to turn without binding but not be so loose as to let oil through the cracks where it is not supposed to go. That's what all the measuring is really about. Provided it does that, half a thou here and there is not going to be fatal. I'm not familiar with the 300TDi but in all the engines I've ever had apart the oil pumps are the one item I've not replaced. They don't seem to wear away like bearing shells, piston rings, bearing surfaces on tappets and all the other bits and pieces that you need to replace or resurface. So the old oil pump has either gone back on or not been taken to bits in the first place. Yes, some of my engines have lasted a long time too!
 
Brown said:
Well the main thing is that you want it to turn without binding but not be so loose as to let oil through the cracks where it is not supposed to go. That's what all the measuring is really about. Provided it does that, half a thou here and there is not going to be fatal. I'm not familiar with the 300TDi but in all the engines I've ever had apart the oil pumps are the one item I've not replaced. They don't seem to wear away like bearing shells, piston rings, bearing surfaces on tappets and all the other bits and pieces that you need to replace or resurface. So the old oil pump has either gone back on or not been taken to bits in the first place. Yes, some of my engines have lasted a long time too!
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Cheers, Brown. That's good to know. I'm starting to calm down a bit now :) Currently Googling oil pumps. Been reading this guy's experience LINKY He describes having a good 8 thou gap between outer rotor and housing. He only changed the rotors and ended up with spot on oil pressures when it was all back together.
 
Al2O3 said:
Cheers, Brown. That's good to know. I'm starting to calm down a bit now :) Currently Googling oil pumps. Been reading this guy's experience LINKY He describes having a good 8 thou gap between outer rotor and housing. He only changed the rotors and ended up with spot on oil pressures when it was all back together.
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Sorry was away for the last few posts, the relationship between the clearance and pressure is non linear, complex, and something you should not worry too much about, remember you are fitting new shells on the crank and bush on the cam shaft you will be reducing the clearances and therefore increasing the oil pressure, your engine did not show any signs of poor lubrication when stripped so I can't see it having a problem when you re build it with the new parts and a new rotor.if it makes you feel more relaxed maybe you could tee into the oil pressure sensor and connect a gauge in there then run the engine to check.
 
raywin said:
Sorry was away for the last few posts, the relationship between the clearance and pressure is non linear, complex, and something you should not worry too much about, remember you are fitting new shells on the crank and bush on the cam shaft you will be reducing the clearances and therefore increasing the oil pressure, your engine did not show any signs of poor lubrication when stripped so I can't see it having a problem when you re build it with the new parts and a new rotor.if it makes you feel more relaxed maybe you could tee into the oil pressure sensor and connect a gauge in there then run the engine to check.
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Morning, raywin. I spent a good few hours Googling oil pressure issues last night and have come to the same conclusion. I'm going to put my casing back on. I'll strip the pressure release valve out and at least put a new spring in as they seem to lose their elasticity and reduce in length. I'll fit a gauge too, for peace of mind, most threads I read last night ended with people doing this. Cheers, appreciate the reassurance. :)
Sun's out here at last so I'm off to blast the block with compressed air and give it a lick of paint.
 
raywin said:
Sorry was away for the last few posts, the relationship between the clearance and pressure is non linear, complex, and something you should not worry too much about, remember you are fitting new shells on the crank and bush on the cam shaft you will be reducing the clearances and therefore increasing the oil pressure, your engine did not show any signs of poor lubrication when stripped so I can't see it having a problem when you re build it with the new parts and a new rotor.if it makes you feel more relaxed maybe you could tee into the oil pressure sensor and connect a gauge in there then run the engine to check.
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Yes, my guess is that all the wear on the bearings will probably make a bigger difference to the overall oil pressure than a thou or two in the pump itself. There are some pictures on here somewhere of a Cummins engine Aaron Morris bought that turned out to have a lot of wear on the bearings, possibly as a result of being run low on oil. Now that's what oil starvation looks like. Nothing like the engine we're talking about here.
 
Brown said:
Yes, my guess is that all the wear on the bearings will probably make a bigger difference to the overall oil pressure than a thou or two in the pump itself. There are some pictures on here somewhere of a Cummins engine Aaron Morris bought that turned out to have a lot of wear on the bearings, possibly as a result of being run low on oil. Now that's what oil starvation looks like. Nothing like the engine we're talking about here.
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Compressor oil systems using a similar pump actually use a slightly oversize pump an a pressure relief valve which bypasses some oil back to tank, that way a slight loss is not such a big issue, also keeps the oil supply up as the machine slows down.
 
Al2O3 said:
I'll fit a gauge too,
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This is a good call in my book - provided the gauge is up to the job ( obvious I know, but in the modern world :rolleyes:) - it's definitely the way to do it...

I guess it was the bean counters who stopped the manufacturers doing this, but gauges are a wonderful thing - I've got a few (extra) in my D1 :)
 
Disco1BFG said:
This is a good call in my book - provided the gauge is up to the job ( obvious I know, but in the modern world :rolleyes:) - it's definitely the way to do it...

I guess it was the bean counters who stopped the manufacturers doing this, but gauges are a wonderful thing - I've got a few (extra) in my D1 :)
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Yes oil pressure gauges can tell you quite a bit about your engine.
One item on my long to do list is to install one of these in the cab:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141775119582?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
 
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