Fitting New Oil Pump

Al2O3 · Apr 16, 2017

In the workshop manual it tells you to reference the cover, inner and outer rotor.

How do you line up the inner and outer rotors to the timing belt cover if you're putting a new one in?

Saint.V8 · Apr 16, 2017

If new there would be no need.

Ref marking is if you are fitting the same back again as they will have worn together for a good fit and seal.

New wont have done that so can just be fitted as is.

Sometimes the oil pump gears are supplied with the inner already inside the outer. In this instance it might be best to mark the two relative to each other so they remain in the same orientation on fitment, but not strictly 100% necessary.

Bearings and races on the other hand must be kept with their supplied selves.

Al2O3 · Apr 16, 2017

Saint.V8 said:
If new there would be no need.

Ref marking is if you are fitting the same back again as they will have worn together for a good fit and seal.

New wont have done that so can just be fitted as is.

Sometimes the oil pump gears are supplied with the inner already inside the outer. In this instance it might be best to mark the two relative to each other so they remain in the same orientation on fitment, but not strictly 100% necessary.

Bearings and races on the other hand must be kept with their supplied selves.

Cheers, Saint.V8 This is it

It's covered in it's thick storage grease. I was planning on cleaning it with brake cleaner and then using assembly lube on it.
Should I reference these two parts before I separate them?
Is there any way to prime the pump on assembly or do you do that by turning the engine over by hand later on?

jamesmartin · Apr 16, 2017

Al2O3 said:
Cheers, Saint.V8 This is it
View attachment 121565
It's covered in it's thick storage grease. I was planning on cleaning it with brake cleaner and then using assembly lube on it.
Should I reference these two parts before I separate them?
Is there any way to prime the pump on assembly or do you do that by turning the engine over by hand later on?

should be a dot on each piece but check , id fill with petroleum jelly with pistons at half way ensure the driving flats in inner pump rotor are aligned with the crank flats so you dont have to turn pump to align front housing with crank,and dont turn engine over till sumps on and holding oil

Al2O3 · Apr 16, 2017

jamesmartin said:
should be a dot on each piece but check , id fill with petroleum jelly with pistons at half way ensure the driving flats in inner pump rotor are aligned with the crank flats so you dont have to turn pump to align front housing with crank,and dont turn engine over till sumps on and holding oil

Vaseline!?

Flossie · Apr 16, 2017

Yes, it'll desolve in the oil but help produce good suction.

Disco1BFG · Apr 16, 2017

jamesmartin said:
fill with petroleum jelly

+1 - done it with every oil pump I have fitted new/dry - never failed me yet

Al2O3 · Apr 16, 2017

Flossie said:
Yes, it'll desolve in the oil but help produce good suction.

Disco1BFG said:
+1 - done it with every oil pump I have fitted new/dry - never failed me yet

Vaseline it is then.
Taking old one apart now to check wear out of interest.

raywin · Apr 16, 2017

Al2O3 said:
Cheers, Saint.V8 This is it
View attachment 121565
It's covered in it's thick storage grease. I was planning on cleaning it with brake cleaner and then using assembly lube on it.
Should I reference these two parts before I separate them?
Is there any way to prime the pump on assembly or do you do that by turning the engine over by hand later on?

Looking at the pump inner rotor has 9 lobes and outer has 10 so the inner and outer will change position relative to one another as they rotate, I.e they won't stay in the same mesh.

Disco1BFG · Apr 16, 2017

Al2O3 said:
Vaseline it is then.
Taking old one apart now to check wear out of interest.

Would be interested to know how worn the pump is, if you can be bothered to measure it

raywin · Apr 16, 2017

Disco1BFG said:
Would be interested to know how worn the pump is, if you can be bothered to measure it

Usually they wear on the sides or they wear the sides of the casing, you can put plastigage on them then close them up to check the wear

jamesmartin · Apr 16, 2017

raywin said:
Looking at the pump inner rotor has 9 lobes and outer has 10 so the inner and outer will change position relative to one another as they rotate.

as is usual with gears , timing gears will have the idler gear with an odd number and gear box gear pairs run one odd and on even number

Disco1BFG · Apr 16, 2017

raywin said:
Usually they wear on the sides or they wear the sides of the casing, you can put plastigage on them then close them up to check the wear

- agreed - I was just wondering how badly ( or not ! ) worn this pump was after 180K miles - out of interest

raywin · Apr 16, 2017

Disco1BFG said:
- agreed - I was just wondering how badly ( or not ! ) worn this pump was after 180K miles - out of interest

I've worked on lots of gerotor pumps in non auto applications, when they are pumping oil they seem to last many thousands of hours they start to loose a bit of flow when the rotors rub into the side casing and make a bit of extra side clearance, I saw a TD5 rebuild by a South African where he had the cover plate surface ground to reduce that clearance.

Al2O3 · Apr 16, 2017

Well, I can feel a panic coming on!

First off the cover looks very worn, but I can barely feel any scoring or removed metal at all. It's more like just the colour has worn off the black plate.
My feeler gauges only go down to 0.008 (0.203mm) and that's it in between the outer rotor and the casing. It's a tiny gap, but way out of spec. The gap between the inner and outer is too small for me to check, but there's barely any perceptible gap.

neilly · Apr 16, 2017

Al2O3 said:
My feeler gauges only go down to 0.008 (0.203mm)

Maybe I am reading this wrong, but , are you saying your feeler gauges only go down to 8 thou? as in that is the thinnest gauge you have?

Cheers

Al2O3 · Apr 16, 2017

neilly said:
Maybe I am reading this wrong, but , are you saying your feeler gauges only go down to 8 thou? as in that is the thinnest gauge you have?

Cheers

That's right. Thinnest is 8 thou

neilly · Apr 16, 2017

Al2O3 said:
That's right. Thinnest is 8 thou

Blimey Mate,

Get yourself a new set................That is a bit thick for a starting size. Still , good for setting tappets.

Cheers

Al2O3 · Apr 16, 2017

neilly said:
Blimey Mate,

Get yourself a new set................That is a bit thick for a starting size. Still , good for setting tappets.

Cheers

Yeah, it's an off set set, for tappets. Never rebuilt an engine to this extent before.

I've put the new pump in and it's pretty tight. There is a slight gap, but I can't get the 8 thou gauge in it. I reckon it'll be bigger that 3 thou though!

Al2O3 · Apr 16, 2017

I think I'll be hitting the Guinness early tonight!
A new timing belt cover is £337.00 on Turner Engineering site. Haven't looked elsewhere yet.
How do those things NOT wear? It's a set of steel rotors just rubbing around in an aluminium housing!!!!!

Someone is going to tell me there is a film of oil between, I know. Mind is racing.

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