fishsponge's ongoing thread of problems!

This site contains affiliate links for which LandyZone may be compensated if you make a purchase.
Right... on to the next problem!!

I wanted to future-proof my new tyres, so figured I'd get a laser 4-wheel geometry check done for £30.00.

First of all, the diagonals from front-left to rear-right and from front-right to rear-left differ by 33mm!!! I therefore need to shim one of the trailing arm bushes by maybe 10mm or so to bring the back axle back inline. Should it really be that far out though?!? I have brand new bushes on the front of the trailing arms and the bushes on the rear of the trailing arms are fine. No play at all. Chassis bent, perhaps? I hope not.

Secondly, they tried to adjust the only thing that they can - the toe in/out. They failed. I gave them permission to use a hammer, wire brush & blowtorch and I witnessed all of it. The damn thing would not budge. Drag link siezed & track rod siezed. Also, rubber "gaitors" on all 4 ball joints were ripped and worn out. So the time has come to replace the track rod, drag link, and all ball joints.

Do you think I should take the opportunity to replace the old (original, 14 year old) steering damper as well?

And what is the "snail shell" looking thing hanging off the back of the track rod next to the steering damper? Is it a counterweight for something? Will I need a new one of those too?

Also, would someone be so kind as to confirm that the following part numbers are exactly what I need and if there is ANYTHING else I need to do this job?!?!?

1x STC786 - Steering damper
1x RTC1799 - Track rod assembly
2x RTC5870 - Track rod ball joint
2x RTC5869 - Tie rod ball joint (is the "tie rod" the same as the "drag link"?)
4x 577898 - Ball joint clamp
4x BH604161L - Ball joint clamp securing bolt
4x NV604041L - Ball joint clamp securing nut

What else will I need in terms of parts and tools?!?
 
Last edited:
Oh boy,,,,,

Well the snail thingy is a vibrational damper, just leave it where it is :)
Order a trakrod rod and two ends, don't bother trying to undo the old unit, if shop can't shift it you never will! Not too pricey and worth it, cover threads on new rod end with copper-slip etc and fit new clamps, just set the wheels parallel, and she'll be fine, no need for tracking malarkey, not bothered to do mine and all is good. To set mine I just set the track rod ends to the dimension in the Haynes book and it worked.

As for the geometry, could be anything, would never dream of applying that much accuracy to me disco. But could be damage, re-welded arm supports, too much weight in the glove box, maybe it was a 'Friday afternoon' build:)

Does it 'crab' as it is being driven? Does it pull to one side?
 
davek0974 said:
Oh boy,,,,,

Well the snail thingy is a vibrational damper, just leave it where it is :)
Order a trakrod rod and two ends, don't bother trying to undo the old unit, if shop can't shift it you never will! Not too pricey and worth it, cover threads on new rod end with copper-slip etc and fit new clamps, just set the wheels parallel, and she'll be fine, no need for tracking malarkey, not bothered to do mine and all is good. To set mine I just set the track rod ends to the dimension in the Haynes book and it worked.

As for the geometry, could be anything, would never dream of applying that much accuracy to me disco. But could be damage, re-welded arm supports, too much weight in the glove box, maybe it was a 'Friday afternoon' build:)

Does it 'crab' as it is being driven? Does it pull to one side?
Click to expand...

OK - i'll get a new damper as well. They range in price from £8.00 to £50.00 though - so tough decision! I want a good one, but not needlessly expensive! lol

Regarding the "snail thingy", I've not looked closely enough, but I thought it was attached to one of the rods... maybe not.

I'm happy to order a track rod and two ends, but i'll need a drag link as well because that has also siezed. Will I need two ends for that as well?

And what are these "ends"? Do you mean ball joints?

Finally, remember that I have to order this stuff, fit it on my drive and if I'm missing even a single bolt, I'm knackered, so is my parts list and quantities above absolutely spot on?

If I miss a bolt, for example, I cannot get to work and have to wait for a new delivery of the missing parts and then fit them in the dark. Not ideal.

And regarding the crabbing, it doesn't noticeably crab, but it does have a tendency to wander over to the left. When going down the motorway I have to keep a constant slight downward pressure on the right-hand side of the steering wheel to keep it straight, so I think it does need looking at.

It has been lifted 2" as well though, which I understand does introduce an element of tramlining. It never tramlines to the right though - always the left.
 
If you're thinking about much off road then a set of hd arms can be had, with proper threads and lock nuts (no nasty tube and clamp) for around £100.

With greasable joints that could last forever on a road bias car.

Just a thought. The fact that they are counter-threaded makes them a joy to track up - just twist the bar til it's reet and lock the locknuts up.

My 2 Penneth.
 
The hd arms come complete, so you will not have a missing but or bolt.

When you got your new steering damper, remove the bracket and remove the harmonic damper as you don't need it. Keep it if you want but it's extra weight.

You will have to cut the bolts down a bit though to fit the steering damper bracket without the harmonic damper bracket, or you could remove the harmonic damper and leave its bracket in place as a spacer so you dont shag the threads when you cut the bolts!

You can either mount your new damper underneath with the included hd rod bracket, or you can relocate with a Glyn Lewis kit or similar.

But again if youre mainly on road then under the axle is better, and cheaper!
 
ok... a set of HD arms it is! £100 sounds pretty good for a drag link, track rod, ball joints and all other necessary parts! I guess the steering damper would be more, but that's fine.

I think the "harmonic damper" will be removed if it really is useless (I do a lot of road miles btw), but I will leave the bracket in place because, as you say, I might shag up the threads while shortening the bolts.

I don't think i'll bother with this Glyn Lewis relocation kit... I'm mainly on road, but do a bit of off roading too. I have a steering guard too and never do anything too horrific.

So... would you happen to know the parts I should buy to get all this done with HD stuff? Or even a link, perhaps, to the parts on a decent supplier's web site? :D

I'm happy to do the leg work here, but if you've already done this, you'll know what to buy and from where!

Oh, and you say the HD ones are very easy to adjust, but when they're not siezed, so are the standard ones - just undo the clamps and rotate the rod!
 
Geoff said where's his nan bread !
How long do'es it need to go in for ?
How much carbon should be on my piston's ?
What is the right caster angle on the front axle ?
Should my ball's have that much rust on them ?
Don't worry about the gwen lewis dislocation cones cos you don't use it off road anyway !
Don't you know how to seach ?
Where is the sump plug, is it in the bath ?
How many time's do I have to turn a cork screw before pulling the cork out ?
Don't forget fit your snorkal to the exhaust !
How do I blow up my shed !


You need to get out more !
By the way, Stu said Hi !
 
Sorry mate just had a look through your thread and not being funny but your some kind of **** and that's being nice as I could call you a lot more
 
Good evening Every one, hows it going in Wales, Hope things are fun over there 666George hope you have put those questions through a Spreadsheet to find the likely hod of finding a question to any of your question..............

But I think you may well get some answers using this thread, a there are a few questions that have the hell worked out of the.

were can I start.......... na I let Fishpong do that.....I am not good a speadsheets.

Have fun guys see you all soon....xxxxxx
 
wangie46 said:
Sorry mate just had a look through your thread and not being funny but your some kind of **** and that's being nice as I could call you a lot more
Click to expand...

Thanks for that, wangie... i like to think of myself as not a ****, but as someone who's broke, has no skills but keen to learn, and too thorough for my own good. I've not met anyone in life who's told me i'm a **** yet.

Anyway... thanks for the part number, Mr. Noisy! I've found it cheaper on craddocks:

HEAVY DUTY STEERING ROD DISCOVERY 1 (LATE TYPE WITH 4 TRACK ROD ENDS) SOLID 30MM DIAMETER STEEL AND ARE SUPPLIED WITH PRECISLEY MACHINED LEFT AND RIGHT HAND THREADS LOCKING NUTS AND QUALITY GREASEABLE TRACK ROD ENDS AND STEERING DAMPER BRACKET INCLUD

is that the right one for my vehicle? a '97 Disco 1... I could phone craddocks on Monday to find out, of course, but you might already know.

and presumably other than that item, the only other thing i'll need is one of these:

TERRAFIRMA STEERING DAMPER DISCOVERY 1 AND RANGE ROVER CLASSIC AND SERIES 2A AND 3 - TF811 - Land Rover Parts & Range Rover Parts

sound good??
 
Hello.

Yep those two items from craddocks are bang on. You get every nut and bolts, all brackets etc, so it couldn't be easier.

Remove old track rods and damper (undo nuts x6)

Unpack new rods and grease threads, and then set them at lengths listed in Haynes. Do this by winding the ends all the way in and then hold both ends steady and turn bar round. This will unscrew both ends at equal rate. Measure from grease nipple to grease nipple as this is the centre of the joint. Temporarily tighten lock nuts finger tight.

Put new rods into car. Track rod needs cut outs for steering damper on passenger side. This will be very obvious. Then put drag link in car. To make life simpler, place drag link in same orientation as track rod. What I mean is, one end of each rod has right hand thread, one end has left hand thread. The track rod only goes one way because of the damper cutouts. Place the drag link with the same threads at the same end as the track rod, for ease and simplicity of adjustment. Get what I mean? This means that twisting the rods the same way makes them both either longer or shorter. Kinda hard to explain, but it just means its less confusing if both rods do same thing when twisted same way.

You might need to wiggle wheels to get the rod ends fully home, that's fine cos the Haynes lengths are correct.

Once a rod end is in, put washer on and tighten nut (19mm)

Before doing steering box end, follow haynes instructions about centering steering box. Then fit rod end and tighten.

Now tighten locks nuts for track for after double checking length.

Remove harmonic damper from bracket if poss, and then fit new damper. New bars come with little bracket and U bolts. Fit little bracket with vertical portion nearest to the diff.

Assemble damper bushes and washers and tighten nuts.

Take for small road test just to establish driving in straight line.

If so, tighten lock nuts on drag link.

If not, loosen lock nuts a few turns. If car goes left at centre, shorten drag link. If right, lengthen.

Finger tight locknuts again and repeat until it drives in straight line; and then tighten proper.

Job done.
 
Do you need HD? Std is cheaper and lighter, just as easy to fit.

When undoing old rod ends, you need two hammers, undo the nuts half way, put one hammer on one side of the casting that holds the tapered part of the rod end, then whack the opposite side good and hard, this normally pops the joint right out, may need a whack or two.

If your mainly on road I would leave the vibration damper in place, it's there for a reason.

As for the 30mm diagonal error, are the radius arm bushes assemble equally on each side?
 
Mr Noisy said:
Yep those two items from craddocks are bang on. You get every nut and bolts, all brackets etc, so it couldn't be easier.

Remove old track rods and damper (undo nuts x6)
Click to expand...

And presumably use the two-hammers method for freeing the ball joints once bolts loosened, right?

Mr Noisy said:
Unpack new rods and grease threads, and then set them at lengths listed in Haynes. Do this by winding the ends all the way in and then hold both ends steady and turn bar round. This will unscrew both ends at equal rate. Measure from grease nipple to grease nipple as this is the centre of the joint. Temporarily tighten lock nuts finger tight.
Click to expand...

Easy enough... will have to buy a grease gun or get someone else to do it though! lol

I will also need to buy a tape measure (something I've never actually got around to owning, but have needed many times!).

Mr Noisy said:
Put new rods into car. Track rod needs cut outs for steering damper on passenger side. This will be very obvious. Then put drag link in car. To make life simpler, place drag link in same orientation as track rod. What I mean is, one end of each rod has right hand thread, one end has left hand thread. The track rod only goes one way because of the damper cutouts. Place the drag link with the same threads at the same end as the track rod, for ease and simplicity of adjustment. Get what I mean? This means that twisting the rods the same way makes them both either longer or shorter. Kinda hard to explain, but it just means its less confusing if both rods do same thing when twisted same way.
Click to expand...

Makes perfect sense.

Mr Noisy said:
You might need to wiggle wheels to get the rod ends fully home, that's fine cos the Haynes lengths are correct.

Once a rod end is in, put washer on and tighten nut (19mm)

Before doing steering box end, follow haynes instructions about centering steering box. Then fit rod end and tighten.

Now tighten locks nuts for track for after double checking length.

Remove harmonic damper from bracket if poss, and then fit new damper. New bars come with little bracket and U bolts. Fit little bracket with vertical portion nearest to the diff.
Click to expand...

On davek0974's advice, I think i'll leave the "snail thingy" inplace, but definitely replace the steering damper. Will that combination still work this this HD set up?

Mr Noisy said:
Assemble damper bushes and washers and tighten nuts.

Take for small road test just to establish driving in straight line.

If so, tighten lock nuts on drag link.

If not, loosen lock nuts a few turns. If car goes left at centre, shorten drag link. If right, lengthen.

Finger tight locknuts again and repeat until it drives in straight line; and then tighten proper.

Job done.
Click to expand...

Fantastic - thanks, Mr. Noisy! Sound incredibly simple and fool-proof, so i have no problem attempting this myself now :)

However...

davek0974 said:
Do you need HD? Std is cheaper and lighter, just as easy to fit.
Click to expand...

I don't *need* HD, but putting together a complete parts list of standard items while also making sure there are no missing nuts, bolts or other items has proven to be a nightmare in the past, and I cannot risk that happened because it would leave my car stranded on the drive with me unable to get to work the next day.

I did come up with a parts list of standard parts in a previous post, but i've not heard if it's absolutely complete or not yet. If I went down the standard route instead of HD, is this *everything* I would need:

1x STC786 - Steering damper
1x RTC1799 - Track rod assembly
2x RTC5870 - Track rod ball joint
2x RTC5869 - Tie rod ball joint (is the "tie rod" the same as the "drag link"?)
4x 577898 - Ball joint clamp
4x BH604161L - Ball joint clamp securing bolt
4x NV604041L - Ball joint clamp securing nut

davek0974 said:
When undoing old rod ends, you need two hammers, undo the nuts half way, put one hammer on one side of the casting that holds the tapered part of the rod end, then whack the opposite side good and hard, this normally pops the joint right out, may need a whack or two.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that... I did have an idea that needed to happen by watching various videos on Youtube in the past, but good to have it confirmed.

davek0974 said:
If your mainly on road I would leave the vibration damper in place, it's there for a reason.
Click to expand...

I will leave it in place in that case. I assume you are referring to the "snail shell" like thing next to the steering damper, of course.

davek0974 said:
As for the 30mm diagonal error, are the radius arm bushes assemble equally on each side?
Click to expand...

The radius arms are on the front axle aren't they... (with trailing arms being on the rear axle)... in which case, I have not checked the radius arms bushes to be honest... if the rear ones are known to be fine then you are right - it could be the front ones.

However, what the laser wheel geometry system showed was that the front axle was level, and the back axle was out... which suggests it is the back axle that is wonky and needs levelling. Once I've bought a tape measure, I'll work my way around the underside of the car! If it's that far out (33mm!), it shouldn't be too hard to find the problem with a standard tape measure!
 
to free ball joints from tapered hole hit using large hammer end of arm it will release taper hold without damage to joint or arm ,track rods with two hammers one on opposite side of track rod tube ,hit all along and around tube as far as thread of ball joint goes ,it stretches tube and allows easy removal and refit
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

D
L320 TDV6 multiple issues at once with power drop
2 3
Replies
43
Views
3K
Graculus
Graculus
Goc3k
Discovery 1 SOLD 1997 300TDI manual D1, Winchester
Replies
16
Views
4K
Goc3k
Goc3k
P
NEW OWNER OF A RANGE ROVER SPORT 3.6 TDV8 HAVING SUSPENSION PROBLEMS
Replies
3
Views
1K
brianp38dse
brianp38dse
Captainflint1967
Landrover Defender 90 200Tdi - Brakes/calipers , Radio electrics and security
2
Replies
31
Views
3K
KISSMYAURA
KISSMYAURA
19_Hue_95
Possible swivel problem?
Replies
9
Views
2K
19_Hue_95
19_Hue_95
Back
Top