F4 (C1151), Three Amigos and Brake light of F1 V6 in 3rd World Country

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Overall this car were in good condition when purchased, only ~90 000 miles done, and it were visible. I think it were tortured by heavy reving through... as I needed to exchange IRD as well after I've fixed the engine (VCU test went fine).

The car was standing 2 years at different mechanics, 4 totally that didn't knew what they are doing. I'm very proud that it drives now. The mechanics were removing from it whole engine, gearbox. I needed to fix many screws, as they destroyed screw sockets, they lost many parts...

Because of that I rechecked manually left and right cable harness in engine bay - I didn't found any issues. I saw also blue isolating tape around bigger gearbox barrel connection, as well in engine ECU wiring (some wires were muted and not connected anywhere, I didn't found where they can be connected anyway, so I assumed it's factory muting).

My problem is I'm not mechanic, I'm web administrator. But I know that If I'll not fix car myself, nobody will do this for me. We got here 2 LR worhshops - one is refusing to accept him, another one - looks like too. They are afraid of FL1 I think :) Other mechanics and car electricians will take this car only for have a "challenge" and their methodological is very wrong when they approach this car, as I already saw fixing their previous repairs.
 
Skafander said:
The car was standing 2 years at different mechanics, 4 totally that didn't knew what they are doing. I'm very proud that it drives now. The mechanics were removing from it whole engine, gearbox. I needed to fix many screws, as they destroyed screw sockets, they lost many parts...
Click to expand...

The KV6 needs careful maintenance and attention, as it's a modern, hi tech engine, which simply doesn't tolerate bad or careless maintenance.
 
Skafander said:
...
I believe my problem is fully electrical, as gearbox even of F4 mode is working fine! In sport mode they go till 3rd, then I've reach 40km/h and error comes in. After I feel like all gears come in, it's just lazy, additionally I got 600km more of engine break in, so I don't rev it much either.
...
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Can you confirm, when manually changing up gears as you go faster, in the test I asked you to do in an earlier post, does the F4 flashing fault occur:

1. When staying in 3rd gear and continuing to accellerate to 40kmh

2. Or when you manually request the change from 3rd gear up to 4th gear, when you push the gear lever forward?


If they have taken the engine/gearbox/ird out and put back in, or done a lot of work around the engine bay, then it is likely they have damaged wiring. You will need to inspect the wiring near the engine bay fuse box, which goes to the L shaped engine bay computer box. The L box is often removed to give betterer access to the engine/gearbox. A damaged harness wire, or damaged wire entering the computer connectors, or a metal pin broken on the computer module itself (visible when removing the connectors), is a possible fault.

If your abs is working in the previous test (brake hard on soft surface to activate - with no errors), and the gearbox works in lower gears initally, then this is a good sign. It also supports the theory of it being a gearbox wiring/connection fault.

In the vast majority of cases F4 flashing is caused by an electrical problem. I see you have checked the gearbox barrel connectors. Try doing the resistance test from the blue connector which connects to the gearbox computer. This will measure the compete wiring harness loop and solenoids/sensors in the gearbox. It will also test if the barrel connecter wiring connections are good. If there is any type of connector cleaner in the barrel connectors, then it needs removed. If electrical contact cleaner is used in there it will need cleaned out as it will work as an insulator between connections.

You are correct when you say not all wires are used in the engine bay computer box. Photo's of mine below. Some wires are unused and taped up. I have more photo's taken at different angles of this box if you need them to compare to yours.

resistance video = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTmdkDuKZ6A

This is the fuse box the wiring harness passes:
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/engine-bay-fuse-box.254159/

Computer box and wiring:
DcCoutT.jpg

P8171537 DcCoutT

mVYxhQB.jpg

mVYxhQB
Fixx name
 
Thank you, @Hippo i didn't saw your answer. After last post I did :

Manual inspection of the wiring at the left side od the engine bay (this Going to the Abs sensor) - i didn't found any problem.

I did also manual inspection of wiring going to the injectors and coils - in center area of engine bay. As told I did some small repairs, nothing special. Added little isolation in some parts of the cables, also a/c.

I did measured resistances in the barrel connectors and aswell - in the gearbox ECU wiring - they were fine. I don't have intermediate speed sensor though :)

I've also purchased new front abs sensors, and changed myself cv joints for previous ones, because I found that new ones (picture 2) were drilling sensors. New sensors didn't even fully fit with new cv joints. After changing cv joints to the old one and putting new sensors abs behavior changed - abs engaging very strongly till the errors come in - stronger than previously. I believe maybe I wrongly tested abs - I think ECU disables it after error comes.

But still - all errors remains just like they were.

I got last piece of wiring to check - at right side of engine bay, but I didn't wanted to do this, because isolation in these cables looks tottaly fine. I'm afraid of time lost.

But I guess I don't have another option now.

I'll make again test recommended by @Hippo at tommorow.

One more thing - I guess a lot of water/coping liquid were dropped into the gearbox itself from the top during previous mechanics job. Even I poured there a not small amount of cooling liquid during cooling system fixing (I needed to connect cabin heater, as it's common practice that mechanics here disconnect them).

Does this might harm the gearbox wiring? I wanted to take out this wiring from gearbox, but it's not moving. I saw on some disassembly movie that only way to remove it is by hitting it by rubber hammer from inside. There are 2 uisolated cables that I did isolated on the top of this gearbox connector, but again - nothing big, reminding that measured resistances are fine.
 
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Skafander said:
Thank you, @Hippo...

I'll make again test recommended by @Hippo at tommorow.

One more thing - I guess a lot of water/coping liquid were dropped into the gearbox itself from the top during previous mechanics job. Even I poured there a not small amount of cooling liquid during cooling system fixing (I needed to connect cabin heater, as it's common practice that mechanics here disconnect them).

Does this might harm the gearbox wiring? I wanted to take out this wiring from gearbox, but it's not moving. I saw on some disassembly movie that only way to remove it is by hitting it by rubber hammer from inside. There are 2 uisolated cables that I did isolated on the top of this gearbox connector, but again - nothing big, reminding that measured resistances are fine.
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Not sure what the question is here.

The auto gearbox you have is the Jatco JF506E. It requires automatic gearbox fluid (oil). It goes in the top. There is a level plug below the gearbox. The level check is done with the engine running, in a specific way. The fluid level needs to be correct.

The auto gearbox fluid has a cooler. The auto gearbox fluid goes through the cooler. Your engine and radiator contains water and coolant. This also goes through the auto gearbox cooler, but it does NOT mix with the auto gearbox fluid. the cooler exchanges the heat between the two flows of liquid.

If the garage has put coolant into the gearbox then you need to clean it out by draining out the fluid, and filling with new fluid. It will only be a partial fluid change so you will have to do this several times. I don't think this is causing your F4 flashing problem. Replacing the auto fluid can work wonders and solve all sorts of problems.

cgqcYv2.jpg

coolingv6 cgqcYv2

I don't think you will be able to remove the gearbox cable without removing the metal clip inside the gearbox. I have a gearbox with me I can open to check unless someone else can remember. Picture below.

aeXYSai.jpg

DSCN2991 aeXYSai

OpYmsxf.jpg

DSCN2992 OpYmsxf

The problem you have is strange as the car seems to be working. Only when you change to 4th gear at 40kmh it fails. I wonder if it is a speed problem.

Can you manually select gears and drive it. Start in manual 1, then change to manual 2 as you go faster. Then change to manual 3. Stay in manual 3 until the car goes above 40kph, to 60kph. Can it drive at 60kph in 3rd gear? This will confirm if the engine is causing the problem or if it is the change up to 4th gear causing the problem.
 
Thank you @Hippo for your attention.

Error appears on 3rd gear and after reaching 40 km/h. I'm not able to force it to switch to 4th gear before (probably gearbox ecu don't allow me to use 4th before 40km/h). After error comes, and car speed more I feel 4th and 5th gears are engaging. I don't think errors are connected with 4th gear.

This week I'll do revision of the cables at the right side of the engine bay - if I'll not find nothing, I'll open gearbox. I've changed oil to Dextron VI (as well old mechanic did so before me). I guess it should serve? Oil level were checked using procedure described by you in other post.
 
Hippo said:
The full explanation of how to check the Jatco JF506E auto gearbox in a Freelander 1 is in the link below:

https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/jatco-automatic-gearbox.69336/page-3

Can you get to 50km/h by holding it in 3rd gear?
Use manual selection on the gear lever. When changing from 2 to 3, leave it in 3 and keep going faster to see if you can get to 60km/h.
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Yes, I went through this procedure, oil level is correct now. I believe I've added after drain and this procedure little less than 4 liters.

I can go on 3rd to around 50 km, but it's already with error engaged.
 
Skafander said:
Yes, I went through this procedure, oil level is correct now. I believe I've added after drain and this procedure little less than 4 liters.

I can go on 3rd to around 50 km, but it's already with error engaged.
Click to expand...
Ok. That confirms the error message appears before it changes to 4th gear.
 
Skafander said:
You think this could be 4th gear valve?
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If the fault happens when it changes from 3 to 4, then the fault is related to that happening.

If the fault happens in 3rd gear before it changes to 4th, then you would assume the problem is not related to 4th gear as it hasn't changed to 4th, or tried to change to 4th.

We need to understand when the fault occurs. This is why I asked about driving up to 60km/h in 3rd gear. Previously you said the fault happened at 40km/h. It happened when changing to 4th gear. To work out if it is a speed related problem or gear related problem, I asked you to go faster in 3rd gear and don't change to 4th.
 
Hippo said:
If the fault happens when it changes from 3 to 4, then the fault is related to that happening.

If the fault happens in 3rd gear before it changes to 4th, then you would assume the problem is not related to 4th gear as it hasn't changed to 4th, or tried to change to 4th.

We need to understand when the fault occurs. This is why I asked about driving up to 60km/h in 3rd gear. Previously you said the fault happened at 40km/h. It happened when changing to 4th gear. To work out if it is a speed related problem or gear related problem, I asked you to go faster in 3rd gear and don't change to 4th.
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I'm sure error appears a good while before gearbox goes to the 4th gear, sometimes is even below 40 km/h (I observed yesterday) - even around 30 km/h. Once, after removing battery, and changing these abs sensors it started with Hdc only, and after while appear rest of the errors.

I need to reset the errors after abs sensor exchange?
 
Skafander said:
I'm sure error appears a good while before gearbox goes to the 4th gear, sometimes is even below 40 km/h (I observed yesterday) - even around 30 km/h. Once, after removing battery, and changing these abs sensors it started with Hdc only, and after while appear rest of the errors.

I need to reset the errors after abs sensor exchange?
Click to expand...
When you change the abs sensors, test your car to see if it works:

1. Check the dash board display illuminates correctly when you switch on the electrics, then the engine, and check the correct lights go out after.
2. Check the abs works by braking hard on a soft surface like wet grass, to get the abs and traction control to operate. You should feel pulsing in the brake pedal when the abs activates. It should work and olluminate lights on the dash board display while it's operating. The lights will go out when it stops operating.
3. Check if the gearbox fault is still happening.

If you still have problems then read the error codes, make a note of what they are, clear the error codes, then read them again. Then drive the car to get it to perform the gearbox error. Then rear the error codes again. This will tell you which codes you have, and when they appear. It is important to know when they appear, and what event caused them. This will help us understand the faults.

Have you fitted the new brake switch or is the wiring still a problem?
 
Hippo said:
When you change the abs sensors, test your car to see if it works:

1. Check the dash board display illuminates correctly when you switch on the electrics, then the engine, and check the correct lights go out after.
2. Check the abs works by braking hard on a soft surface like wet grass, to get the abs and traction control to operate. You should feel pulsing in the brake pedal when the abs activates. It should work and olluminate lights on the dash board display while it's operating. The lights will go out when it stops operating.
3. Check if the gearbox fault is still happening.

If you still have problems then read the error codes, make a note of what they are, clear the error codes, then read them again. Then drive the car to get it to perform the gearbox error. Then rear the error codes again. This will tell you which codes you have, and when they appear. It is important to know when they appear, and what event caused them. This will help us understand the faults.

Have you fitted the new brake switch or is the wiring still a problem?
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After changing both front abs sensors i don't see change in behavior of the car. I believe I got same errors as mentioned previously. I'll do new reading when I'll see change in behavior or the car.

I'm still using old brake switch, I don't know how to connect wires to new one. I've tried combinations that I made picture on the previous page, but none of them work.
 
I found another problem. It's overheating on idle. Ventilators work only on revs, but when it's idle and starts to overheat - no. What could be the problem?
 
Hippo said:
The new brake switch cable... have a look at the link below for photo's of it:

https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/3-amigo-brake-light-switch-replacement-guide.125617/

Or seach on google for the cable YMQ503280 and you'll find different photo's on it on the internet:

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=YMQ503280
Click to expand...

Thank you, I actually did that, but middle part of the cable is always covered and as you can see 4 pins from new design switch are connecting into 3 sockets of old socket. I didn't figured how to connect these cables.

Additionally I've rechecked cables at the right side of the engine bay and fixed little un-isolated cables at smaller gearbox barrel connector - no change unfortunately. I have to tell - I give up at this point, this car consumes too much of my time, and I'm leaving this 3rd country anyway, so I'll just lower the price, and hope new owner will be able to trace the fault.

Nodge68 said:
Has it got coolant? Does the coolant tank have cracks around the pressure cap?
Click to expand...

I've exchanged coolant tank for another - from Vectra, and used tougher cap - till 140psi - so these are new. Coolant starts to boil once car is at idle or in traffic. It's totally fine on the highway.
 
Skafander said:
I've exchanged coolant tank for another - from Vectra, and used tougher cap - till 140psi - so these are new. Coolant starts to boil once car is at idle or in traffic. It's totally fine on the highway
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Are cooling fans coming on? If so the thermostat has failed. To prove the thermostat, simple hold the revs at 2,500 Rpm and see if the boiling stops. If it does stop then you need a new thermostat.
 
Nodge68 said:
Are cooling fans coming on? If so the thermostat has failed. To prove the thermostat, simple hold the revs at 2,500 Rpm and see if the boiling stops. If it does stop then you need a new thermostat.
Click to expand...

yes, they are turning on. Ok, Thermostat is easy to change, I've ordered it already, I want new owner not have at least this problem
 
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