Dual vs solid mass clutch

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Gingerbread

Member
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79
I purchased a TD5 Disco 2 that I believe has a solid mass LOF clutch.

I find driving the car that gear changes are hard to perform without a nasty jerk. It really does detract from the driving experience. Is this problem normal and expected with a single mass clutch? This is my first manual land rover so I have no reference point.
 
Iirc the disco has a hydraulic clutch damper in the line to the slave cylinder, round thing near the master Iirc?
 
Try double- declutching. Or just pause in neutral on the way between one gear and another.
They are just a bit more like a truck than a car and do have a transmission box as well as two driven axles.
 
LOF clutches .... especially the single mass replacing the dual mass versions are problematic (yes, i'm being polite).
There is little to no 'shock' absorbtion anymore and the R380 doesn't like that. The heavy springs between the friction plate and the drive member are also pretty good at transmitting vibration which again doesn't make for smooth anything in the transmission.

Take it out, throw it away, and fit a Valeo dual mass flywheel and clutch.
 
Yes I tend to agree with reverting back to dual mass. I don't understand why a single mass would be beneficial beyond being more mechanically tough.
I plan to install a VNT turbo to the TD5 (currently stage 2). WOuld a valeo dual mass be suitable with the higher torque load?
 
Gingerbread said:
I plan to install a VNT turbo to the TD5 (currently stage 2). WOuld a valeo dual mass be suitable with the higher torque load?
Click to expand...

I guess as long as ... you dont overload the clutch when taking up drive (racing starts for example dumping the clutch at high revs), engage in poor driving techniques (similar to above, snatched gear changes etc) or heavily overload the vehicle and habitually slip the clutch (so it overheats) then you will be fine.
 
If I was ever to fit one it would be to avoid the expense of having to replace the DM one when I did the clutch, not that I need to do clutches very often.
 
I have stage 2 and DM no problems, I do not drive it like a BMW. I think more than a few that fitted Sm are sorry and changed back. Geniuine only on this item, which is why some people on both sides of the argument have problems.
 
hughdavies said:
Have seen others saying they have fitted heavy duty single mass with a high tune. Do a serch here D2 boys club.
Click to expand...
I made that mistake myself to fit a solid one based on advertisings and some forumists opinions, it was wasted money for me, after a month or so i bought a Valeo DMF cos i was fed up by the vibrations and gear change jerks on motorway drive then everything becsme smooth again (gifted the solid one to a friend who has an off road competition defender where the smoothness doesnt matter) ... those who say a solid flywheel is OK for a daily driver D2 might have this problem IMO:
 
Last edited:
Gingerbread said:
Yes I tend to agree with reverting back to dual mass. I don't understand why a single mass would be beneficial beyond being more mechanically tough.
I plan to install a VNT turbo to the TD5 (currently stage 2). WOuld a valeo dual mass be suitable with the higher torque load?
Click to expand...

No chance.

That's part of the point of the SMF over DMF.

If you want to stay stock power/just a mild remap then fit Valeo.

You can get away with that running a hybrid but it will not last anywhere near as long. I've seen failures as low as 15k miles from a brand new valeo. However depends on use and how you drive.

If you're fitting a VNT then you need the SMF. The DMFs just cannot take the torque I mean they will until they don't. Then it's a very expensive replacement. People will argue "oh but neither can the gearbox or diffs" they can. My old 110 had an Ashcroft R380 but they arnt exactly heavy duty, that did huge mileage. New 110s got a stock gearbox and got close to 600nm running through it. Still fine.

DMFs arnt cheap and who knows if Valeo will even continue parts support for a near 25 year old vehicle. Parts support for many other parts has been falling away recently being replaced by Britpart. Even G rated isn't genuine anymore.

My Valeo DMF (on 12k miles) went doing 70 on the M25, shortly after the VNT was fitted.

If you drive it correctly and learn how it behaves they is very little if any jerkyness. It's barely noticeable to me now.

SMFs are also serviceable if needed.
 
Hmmm. I'm caught between a rock and a hard place. I do notice however that LOF clutches offer an "extreme spec" clutch for use with a dual mass flywheel.

I also do not tow and am not exactly a boy racer. I want the VNT to give low end torque.

I will write to LOF to see if they have any advise to offer.
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sierrafery said:
I made that mistake myself to fit a solid one based on advertisings and some forumists opinions, it was wasted money for me, after a month or so i bought a Valeo DMF cos i was fed up by the vibrations and gear change jerks on motorway drive then everything becsme smooth again (gifted the solid one to a friend who has an off road competition defender where the smoothness doesnt matter) ... those who say a solid flywheel is OK for a daily driver D2 might have this problem IMO:
Click to expand...

When you fitted the SMF did you also change the clutch to the appropriate sprung friction plate?
 
"We have many noise issues reported on R380’s when fitted to the TD5 engines when a single mass flywheel is used instead of the stock duel mass type, the single mass flywheels make the gearboxes ‘chatter’ badly on idle and when not under load, this does not appear to be detrimental to the gearbox but does not sound good at all, we do not treat this as a gearbox fault, its caused by the single mass flywheel transferring the knock of the diesel engine to the gearbox and making the gearbox rattle."

This is a direct quote from Ashcroft Transmissions. If a gearbox specialist of over 40 years states this, I'd believe them.

Whilst maybe not detrimental to the gearbox, it would be for the driving experience imo, you can read countless experiences of people running standard clutchees with fairly hefty tunes and doing thousands upon thousands of miles.

A chap I work for has a very strong map and is on 211000k on original clutch,, he tows a trailer everyday but drives it how you are supposed to drive a defender. Non of this revving up dropping the clutch crap.

I'd personally say stick with original turbo ( although driven sympathetically I'd question having to switch to single mass anyway) , but depends what you want/ need from your vehicle.

I've built my defender to run everyday with a trailer, through forestry and all sorts. Mine runs quite a good map and on 160k the clutch hasn't been touched and is showing no signs of needing to!
 
So that was in reference to the old style Britpart ones. Lukes have been redesigned to avoid this.

After reading this yesterday I tried to see if mine had any issues as described and they just arnt there. Drives as smooth and happy as if it was a DMF.
 
Here is what LOF clutches said:

Thanks for getting in touch,

So the flywheel (Dual/Solid) should not effect the clutch gear changes, so I would suggest it maybe something else (Gearbox syncros or hydraulic maybe?)

Regarding the flywheel- do you know what make it is?

RE using a dual mass flywheel at high power- two things happen, 1. The springs start to get noisey after around 20k miles, but also when getting hot they can end up warping the top face (clutch face) and ending up dished like a dinner plate which causes clutch issues!

I hope this helps, please let me know what other info you need?
 
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