Dual vs solid mass clutch

So just to expand on my complaint that I am trying to fix. Changing gears, even when attempting to rev match results in a jerk. I am confident that no matter who is driving the vehicle gear changes will be made with an unpleasant head tossing jerk. I was told by the previous owner the vehicle has an LOF clutch. Driving the car I strongly suspect it is a solid mass item due to the harshness and unforgiving nature of the engagement. The gearbox itself feels great and even has a slickshift stick. It is clear to me it relates to either the clutch and/or backlash in the drive train. The vehicle has 110k on the clock. It has had a easy life and is well looked after.

Perhaps I should check the rig and pinion backlash?

Gingerbread said:

even has a slickshift stick.

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You may remember I did make the point that with a LR it is important to be gentle with gearchanges. "into neutral - pause - into next gear" to allow the synchro rings to do their job.
Now a slickshift militates against this.

Just saying.

Have heard others say that the slikshift is crap and they have pulled it of.

bankz5152 said:

What did they say about the heavy duty versions?

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What do 'I' say about the HD/Extreme versions ...

Since fitting one, my R30 rattles like a can of spanners.
New/rebuilt gearbox fitted, still rattling.
Gearbox sent back, new box sent out and fitted, chatter/rattle and a reasonable unhealthy 'clack' as you change gear, ie no change.
So I have had/fitted two newly rebuilt gearboxes (in the last few months) and both have been faulty, no I don't think so.

It's the clutch. It's not absorbing any vibrations or sudden changes in torque as the springs (between the drive member and the friction plate) are too rigid.
When above (roughty) 1200rpm it's fine but below if 'chatters' the shafts and gears in the box.

My car is a 300tdi, with a SM flywheel and sounds like a tractor, advances were introduced which included a DM flywheel to "iron out" the vibrations transfered into the box of shafts and cogs that is the R380.




Read what @Chalky. said in post #15.

When you asked Tom (Winchester) or Richard (Ashcroft) what did they tell you ?
I am well aware that Luke (LOF) is a good salesman and that he is in denial, although he is sending me another cluch.
What do you think I should do @bankz5152 ?

Take the offered clutch or buy a Valeo @ less that £100

miktdish said:

What do 'I' say about the HD/Extreme versions ...

Since fitting one, my R30 rattles like a can of spanners.
New/rebuilt gearbox fitted, still rattling.
Gearbox sent back, new box sent out and fitted, chatter/rattle and a reasonable unhealthy 'clack' as you change gear, ie no change.
So I have had/fitted two newly rebuilt gearboxes (in the last few months) and both have been faulty, no I don't think so.

It's the clutch. It's not absorbing any vibrations or sudden changes in torque as the springs (between the drive member and the friction plate) are too rigid.
When above (roughty) 1200rpm it's fine but below if 'chatters' the shafts and gears in the box.

My car is a 300tdi, with a SM flywheel and sounds like a tractor, advances were introduced which included a DM flywheel to "iron out" the vibrations transfered into the box of shafts and cogs that is the R380.

View attachment 325844
View attachment 325845

Read what @Chalky. said in post #15.

When you asked Tom (Winchester) or Richard (Ashcroft) what did they tell you ?
I am well aware that Luke (LOF) is a good salesman and that he is in denial, although he is sending me another cluch.
What do you think I should do @bankz5152 ?

Take the offered clutch or buy a Valeo @ less that £100View attachment 325847

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I do wonder about Lof clutches. My son just had a clutch fitted in his 200tdi, he had two qoutes and neither of the places gave Lof as an option, wonder why?

Ok so we are talking about 200s & 300s here. Neither of which can produce enough hp or torque to ever warrant needed an SMF.

I was referring to the use in higher power TD5s.

The thread piqued my interest becuase of the chat about vibration, chatter and such. None of which I've experienced and been actively looking for it over the last few days.

I've been driving daily driving Td5s for the last 13 years, my 90 Td5 was pretty basic. The last 10 years I've been driving high power TD5s, 2 110s and D2 covered probably 150k+ miles all on LOFs clutches because Valeo and OEM just couldn't not take the power or torque. Blew 2 DMFs and 3 clutches, one of which was LOFs powerspec.

So VNT Extreme SMF for me. Personally covered 60k - 70k in my old 110, maybe 20k in the D2 and now 12 this yeah in my new 110.

Never had an issue, no chatter, no major vibration. The odd backlash but that's likely down to the TX box.

These are my experiences.

@miktdish
I'm not trying to sing Lukes praises as the be all and end all of clutches - He has been excellent to me and I can't deny that. For you as its a stock 300 not looking to run big power then go valeo and see what happens.

hughdavies said:

Have heard others say that the slikshift is crap and they have pulled it of.

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I hear the same. It's often down to the fact that people can't be assed to sit and sit them up correctly and blame the product.

I've seen so many badly installed ones and because of the design if installed badly makes changes worse. Installed correctly and set up massive improvement.

Also had one in all my Land Rovers, since the slickshift was released. Always have the comment of how smooth and east mine are to drive.

Stanleysteamer said:

Try double- declutching. Or just pause in neutral on the way between one gear and another.
They are just a bit more like a truck than a car and do have a transmission box as well as two driven axles.

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My complaint is not that the synchros are not engaging nicely etc. The gearbox itself feels very nice and precise. Its after you have selected say 4th gear and release the clutch it is very very hard to do so without a head jolt. I'm beginning to wonder if I have too much backlash in the ring and pinions. I will check the play tomorrow.

Gingerbread said:

My complaint is not that the synchros are not engaging nicely etc. The gearbox itself feels very nice and precise. Its after you have selected say 4th gear and release the clutch it is very very hard to do so without a head jolt. I'm beginning to wonder if I have too much backlash in the ring and pinions. I will check the play tomorrow.

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That will likely be nothing to do with the flywheel.
The drive train on all defenders means that after a certain number of miles you will get wear and therefore some slack. The center diff in the t-box can be a big culprit, but so can the drive flanges, splines on the halfshafts, axle diffs, propshaft ujs and sliders etc etc, you have a little play in each of those components and it all will equal a big amount of slop when releasing the clutch if not done thoughtfully.

Chalky. said:

That will likely be nothing to do with the flywheel.
The drive train on all defenders means that after a certain number of miles you will get wear and therefore some slack. The center diff in the t-box can be a big culprit, but so can the drive flanges, splines on the halfshafts, axle diffs, propshaft ujs and sliders etc etc, you have a little play in each of those components and it all will equal a big amount of slop when releasing the clutch if not done thoughtfully.

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To check how much of a role the centre diff has in the total backlash. Does locking the centre diff bypass its slack/play? Perhaps I could just go for a drive (being careful not to turn tightly) and assess the jerky gearchange issue I have?