Disco 2, can it be kept reliable off road?

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RustHater said:
Is this 3 amigo wiring mod to stop the warning lights even if there is say a faulty sensor? Is it likely to get picked up by an insurer trying to wriggle out of a settlement if, say, they felt the ABS was indeed faulty?
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It is a mod to work around the broken link inside the abs unit
 
It's not illegal to remove abs, so long as you remove absolutely all traces of it. But I'm not sure why you'd want to as the TC relies on parts of it and that's necessary if you don't have a CDL
 
The D2 electronics are actually pretty reliable.

Only engine stopper is the crank sensor.

Suspension is pretty good treat the bags as a consumable and take a spare. No need for coils, which also wear out and sag.
 
kermit_rr said:
It's not illegal to remove abs, so long as you remove absolutely all traces of it. But I'm not sure why you'd want to as the TC relies on parts of it and that's necessary if you don't have a CDL
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I wouldn't be so sure on this. It wouldn't be a matter of MoT, although they would look for warning lights, but more a matter of type approval. At the very least you'd need to notify your insurance.
 
If you removed the ABS and put lockers on both diffs the car would still drive fine and be legal.
specialist insurers would still insure it.
After all no one builds a Rod or a Custom or a Kit Car with them in and it ain't part of IVA.
 
If "removing the ABS" was about getting rid of the ABS sensors it means that the vehicle will not have a working speedometer as it relies on them(i doubt that any insurer would accept such thing) also the engine management will be mixed up without the VSS(vehicle speed signal) input and no improvisation with lockers or other tricks can override that.. IMO nobody should bastardise a well equipped D2, those who want simplicity should buy a rudimentary vehicle without electronic enhancements from the beginning.
 
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Stanleysteamer said:
If you removed the ABS and put lockers on both diffs the car would still drive fine and be legal.
specialist insurers would still insure it.
After all no one builds a Rod or a Custom or a Kit Car with them in and it ain't part of IVA.
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Well no, but IVA is Individual Vehicle Approval, aka Type Approval. The D2 is however already Type Approved to a legislated specification, which will differ for one off or low volume manufacturing using the IVA process.

If you IVA your D2 it will end up on a Q plate. It would also have to be registered as a different make, as you wouldn't be able to keep it as a Land Rover. I'm not sure they would PASS it however, if you are just using it to remove safety equipment you would otherwise need to have. It might be a legal loop-hole, but would need investigation. I'd suggest it wouldn't be in the spirit of the regulations.


Probably also worth noting. A large percentage of hotrods and customs in the UK are also not technically roadworthy or legal to drive on the road. Should they be involved in an accident, you could be on very shaky ground.

However it is a numbers game. Most rods do very few miles per year and mostly on quieter roads at non peak times. So chances of being involved in an accident are less. But this doesn't make them anymore legal to drive.
 
300bhp/ton said:
Well no, but IVA is Individual Vehicle Approval, aka Type Approval. The D2 is however already Type Approved to a legislated specification, which will differ for one off or low volume manufacturing using the IVA process.

If you IVA your D2 it will end up on a Q plate. It would also have to be registered as a different make, as you wouldn't be able to keep it as a Land Rover. I'm not sure they would PASS it however, if you are just using it to remove safety equipment you would otherwise need to have. It might be a legal loop-hole, but would need investigation. I'd suggest it wouldn't be in the spirit of the regulations.


Probably also worth noting. A large percentage of hotrods and customs in the UK are also not technically roadworthy or legal to drive on the road. Should they be involved in an accident, you could be on very shaky ground.

However it is a numbers game. Most rods do very few miles per year and mostly on quieter roads at non peak times. So chances of being involved in an accident are less. But this doesn't make them anymore legal to drive.
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I get your point but this is kind of compounding two things into one. IVA by its very title cannot be "Type approval", as you are not getting a "Type" approved but an individual vehicle approved. so it absolutely is NOT "aka Type Approval". Type approval allows a manufacturer to manufacture a load of vehicles of the same "type", IVA is for one offs.
It might, and probably would, come under the heading of a radically altered vehicle. see https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/radically-altered-vehicles
As for your statement that a large proportion of Rods and Customs aren't roadworthy or legal, I'd like to know where you get that from.
I haven't been in that world for quite a while now but when I was, the ones I met at shows etc, that we did jointly with my kit car club, they were all taxed, insured MOTed etc. After all, the plods just LOVE to crawl all over that sort of thing!
 
sierrafery said:
If "removing the ABS" was about getting rid of the ABS sensors it means that the vehicle will not have a working speedometer as it relies on them(i doubt that any insurer would accept such thing) also the engine management will be mixed up without the VSS(vehicle speed signal) input and no improvisation with lockers or other tricks can override that.. IMO nobody should bastardise a well equipped D2, those who want simplicity should buy a rudimentary vehicle without electronic enhancements from the beginning.
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Remember he only wants it for off road. EDIT, actually not sure about this. If he wants it do both on and off road then he'll need to think very carefully about what to keep and what to ditch. As we have both said, better off with a simpler and more reliable D1. I'd go for a 300tdi and mod it for performance and off road capability.
but you have a point.
Is there anyway in which he could leave the sensors on to get the VSS etc, without them doing anything else?
 
Stanleysteamer said:
I get your point but this is kind of compounding two things into one. IVA by its very title cannot be "Type approval", as you are not getting a "Type" approved but an individual vehicle approved. so it absolutely is NOT "aka Type Approval". Type approval allows a manufacturer to manufacture a load of vehicles of the same "type", IVA is for one offs.
It might, and probably would, come under the heading of a radically altered vehicle. see https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/radically-altered-vehicles
As for your statement that a large proportion of Rods and Customs aren't roadworthy or legal, I'd like to know where you get that from.
I haven't been in that world for quite a while now but when I was, the ones I met at shows etc, that we did jointly with my kit car club, they were all taxed, insured MOTed etc. After all, the plods just LOVE to crawl all over that sort of thing!
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Well anything with exposed wheels is likely illegal. Anything failing the radically altered regs you linked too and isn’t on a Q plate would be. And often many other things you see on rods. Such as being built out of two vehicles yet still trying to be tax exempt.
 
300bhp/ton said:
Well anything with exposed wheels is likely illegal. Anything failing the radically altered regs you linked too and isn’t on a Q plate would be. And often many other things you see on rods. Such as being built out of two vehicles yet still trying to be tax exempt.
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There will always be peeps who tear the ass out of anything. But then there are a lot of extremely serious guys doing rods etc. I was and still am in the kit car world and have been through both SVA and IVA. The tests are actually in some ways more strict and some production cars would actually fail IVA.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with radically altering a vehicle providing the person who does it does it responsibly.
There are very few who would do it in a way which would risk their and their families lives.
And what proves this is that insurance for Kit Cars etc is actually not that expensive, in fact my kit cars are cheaper to insure than my Dsco 2. The companies KNOW that the peeps doing it are on the ball.
Unconventional doesn't mean batsh!t crazy.
 
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300bhp/ton said:
Well anything with exposed wheels is likely illegal. Anything failing the radically altered regs you linked too and isn’t on a Q plate would be. And often many other things you see on rods. Such as being built out of two vehicles yet still trying to be tax exempt.
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My Marlin Roadster is tax exempt as based on a 1972 vehicle, ditto the wife's Chesil Speedster as based on a 1971 vehicle.
It is totally legal. Both were built according to the rules at the time and have kept the original regs. They carried over sufficient of the original vehicle to be seen as just a modified version of it. There was a points scale and both fell completely within it.
Do you have some sort of a problem with people who do this sort of thing?
 
Stanleysteamer said:
My Marlin Roadster is tax exempt as based on a 1972 vehicle, ditto the wife's Chesil Speedster as based on a 1971 vehicle.
It is totally legal. Both were built according to the rules at the time and have kept the original regs. They carried over sufficient of the original vehicle to be seen as just a modified version of it. There was a points scale and both fell completely within it.
Do you have some sort of a problem with people who do this sort of thing?
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Did I say your vehicles? Are they using two chassis from 2 different vehicles? Do they have exposed wheels? And where they built and registered recently?

And no, I own several heavily (radically??) modified vehicles.

But none of this changes the fact that many rods are not technically road worthy or legal to drive on the road. Numbers wise I really couldn't tell you. But when I see them at shows, I suspect quite a few would not meet the regs unless on a Q plate, which they almost never seem to be. Although there is a greyness in the regs on if something existed before the current regs. But how this is known or proven must be somewhat challenging.
 
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