Paulmitchell1984
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didnt realise they wernt road legal, hmm may re think that idea then lol...wondering if the p38 power steering pump will be upto the challenge
Disco 1 on portals
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Mr Noisy
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Hydro assist is the only option, or build a full hydro axle case and switch it in/out for comps.
P38 pump is higher pressure yes.
P38 pump is higher pressure yes.
jamesmartin
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not so sure that is that easy switching from full ps to pas,completely separate system types
Mr Noisy
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Well yes would have to switch out the steering box too
Possible in theory but not saying it isn't a fair size task each time!
Possible in theory but not saying it isn't a fair size task each time!
Dr_evil
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Surely the best way to do it for pure steering angle would be to remove the trailing arm link and the steering arm and simply run on a gearing system thats helped by a hydraulic ram, still got your mechanical link then plus hydro steer.
jamesmartin
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Dr_evil
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Rather than swapping in and out the axle if you were to have a top driven steering link on a geared UJ shaft running to another geared shaft which would turn encased gears in the hubs to steer, you'd then be able to run your hydrosteer system alongside that which if in use would simply take over until it failed
jamesmartin
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youd have to draw a pic of that ,the only benefit on full power steering would be to put ram in track rod behind axle that i can think off ,since you have to have pas legally why not stick with it
Dr_evil
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I may later, only having a break from a uni assignment atm.......need to restart in a bit but I'm procrastinating
The way truck systems work is far better its a hydraulic ram working in conjunction with the standard PAS, the hydraulic ram replaces the steering damper from memory or bolts to the axle and chassis......cant remember without looking and then it runs off the PAS box so when the PAS box is active extra fluid is pushed into the ram which takes a lot of the weight off the gears inside the box and off the arm too but theres obviously still a manual backup system if the ram fails
The way truck systems work is far better its a hydraulic ram working in conjunction with the standard PAS, the hydraulic ram replaces the steering damper from memory or bolts to the axle and chassis......cant remember without looking and then it runs off the PAS box so when the PAS box is active extra fluid is pushed into the ram which takes a lot of the weight off the gears inside the box and off the arm too but theres obviously still a manual backup system if the ram fails
jamesmartin
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you can get pas which consists of a ram with a control valve ,moving the steering activates hyd assist but obviously requires manual steering box and drag link ,unlike full power which just uses an orbitrol control valve and a ram with just pipes
Dr_evil
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Yes, that would be your closest option on roads. But the idea would be to use a ram powerful enough to take out all the effort from the normal gearing system but that still leaves a trailing arm and steering in there whereas what I was saying with the other option would be to have the ram alongside a purely gear based system which would require no arm thus increasing the lock possible whilst still including a manual failsafe system
Mr Noisy
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Hydro assist kit readily available from gwyn Lewis
Problems are mechanical system always limits potential of hydro system
Hence for competition vehicles the mechanical link is removed
Another example of where a comp motor is sometimes best kept off road only
To be honest uk vehicle rules are very relaxed so we get away with a lot, ie many challenge type vehicles can still be road legal.
Problems are mechanical system always limits potential of hydro system
Hence for competition vehicles the mechanical link is removed
Another example of where a comp motor is sometimes best kept off road only
To be honest uk vehicle rules are very relaxed so we get away with a lot, ie many challenge type vehicles can still be road legal.
jamesmartin
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articulated steer landy would be interesting
Mr Noisy
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Indeed 
robbh
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This is actually false!
Steering units are actually available with a means to steer manually. This is taken from pirate 4x4.
Steering Unit Integral Valves
If you recall how the steering unit is in fact a combination of valve(s) and metering unit, it will not be a surprise that there are often (depending on manufacturer) a number of "optional" valving functions available on steering units. Most are not really required by us, except for one very important one - the#Manual Steering Check Valve. Most, if not every steering unit I have ever read about that we might possibly use includes one of these. It is a small valve built in to the steering unit that allows the steering unit to act as a small hand operated pump (by turning the steering wheel), providing limited manual steering, should the engine, pump or a belt quit. In my experience, the result is that the steering operates almost identically to normal automotive Saginaw power steering with no power. It is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to manually turn 38" tires at low pressure in a spooled and slugged front axle while sitting still with the engine off. However, with, say, a black YJ belonging to a good friend towing you along at a reasonable clip, it's actually quite steerable. I know this, because the first day I was testing my hydro steering I fried an alternator and a coil!
For anyone considering hydrostatic steering i suggest you get comfortable and take a read of this.
Pirate4x4.Com - Extreme Four Wheel Drive
Mr Noisy
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Ah
Thanks rob will do!
Thanks rob will do!
200tdi ayre
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This is actually false!
Steering units are actually available with a means to steer manually. This is taken from pirate 4x4.
Steering Unit Integral Valves
If you recall how the steering unit is in fact a combination of valve(s) and metering unit, it will not be a surprise that there are often (depending on manufacturer) a number of "optional" valving functions available on steering units. Most are not really required by us, except for one very important one - the#Manual Steering Check Valve. Most, if not every steering unit I have ever read about that we might possibly use includes one of these. It is a small valve built in to the steering unit that allows the steering unit to act as a small hand operated pump (by turning the steering wheel), providing limited manual steering, should the engine, pump or a belt quit. In my experience, the result is that the steering operates almost identically to normal automotive Saginaw power steering with no power. It is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to manually turn 38" tires at low pressure in a spooled and slugged front axle while sitting still with the engine off. However, with, say, a black YJ belonging to a good friend towing you along at a reasonable clip, it's actually quite steerable. I know this, because the first day I was testing my hydro steering I fried an alternator and a coil!
For anyone considering hydrostatic steering i suggest you get comfortable and take a read of this.
Pirate4x4.Com - Extreme Four Wheel Drive
Depends where the hydraulics fail. If its between the steering and pump then theres no steering and you're screwed. As far as I know and im preety sure on this for MOT full hydro is illegal, unless theres a special rule for competition only vehicles, such as rally cars not needing to have a cable handbrake
Mr Noisy
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Normally the engine fails not the hydraulics
200tdi ayre
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Normally the engine fails not the hydraulics
True
Id have full hydro on a offroader only, hydro assist on mix
Mr Noisy
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I'm thinking electric hydraulic pump would be the answer
Although tbh it's just not worth it
If you have problems on road with hydraulics you're ####ed
If you have problems on competition with engine you're ####ed
So best off with mechanical for road, keep it simple
Although tbh it's just not worth it
If you have problems on road with hydraulics you're ####ed
If you have problems on competition with engine you're ####ed
So best off with mechanical for road, keep it simple
