Defender TD5 - crank bit won’t start

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NigeC

Member
Posts
14
Hi - my td5 was working fine. Then started hesitating. Now just cranks and will not start. I have been through pretty much everything:

- replaced fuel pressure reg
- new filter and fuel line connectors
- new crank pos sensor
- new intertia switch

Recently has a complete head replacement with reconditioned injectors and new glow plugs. All actuate fine using Nanocom and has been running like a dream until this issue.

Has to be something really silly but cannot work it out…..
 
Yeah I wondered about that. Replaced the cps and the starter…. Still no joy.

Like looking for a needle in a haystack! Wondering if a garage professional obd will show more than my Nanocom.
 
It is very strange. Was running fine, then started to run a bit rough and cut out. Leave for 30 mins or so and it would start again, then run rough and then eventually would not start at all. Thought it was fuel, cps, pump, regulator, isolation switch - but all replaced (except fuel pump - but the pump seems to run fine as priming sends fuel through no probs). Kinda running out of ideas and may have to resort to taking it to a specialist garage. Prob find it’s an elec prob of some sort I guess.
 
Maybe fuel pressure is low?
I do believe the relays also have a habit of making poor connections.
The fuel filter housing also has a habit of corroding or the non return valve in the housing sometimes need replacing.
Sure someone else with more experience will be along soon.
 
NigeC said:
Hi - my td5 was working fine. Then started hesitating. Now just cranks and will not start. I have been through pretty much everything:

- replaced fuel pressure reg
- new filter and fuel line connectors
- new crank pos sensor
- new intertia switch

Recently has a complete head replacement with reconditioned injectors and new glow plugs. All actuate fine using Nanocom and has been running like a dream until this issue.

Has to be something really silly but cannot work it out…..
Click to expand...
Check this out https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/check-td5-fuel-pump-hp.358086/

and BTW no diag tool can do more than nanocom for the Td5 engine.... meassure voltage while cranking on the battery, if it drops below 10.5V it will never start
 
I had something similar a few years ago when my ECU was in the process of failing. It would run very roughly with a good deal of smoke, and leave 'peak charge long' errors on the Nanocom. If these were cleared it could be started and would run fine, until it happened again. Eventually it would not make the engine run properly at all and the ECU repair firm that had previously mended it said they couldn't fix it and gave me refund. It's also possible to have an ECU which appears healthy on the Nanocom but be useless for starting the car. I've got one upstairs like that in my Land Rover Black Museum. I've now got two working ECUs, one running the car and another I carry with me on outings as a spare. It's also handy for diagnostic purposes - swap 'em over and see if the fault persists.

I don't think anyone's mentioned oil in loom yet. Have a look at the multiplug where the wires go onto the cylinder head (on the (UK) driver's side of the engine near the front) and see if there's any oil visible. As the Defender's ECU is mounted a long way from the engine it often doesn't make it as far as the ECU, but by the time it's reached the plug there's enough to cause trouble.

Another problem I've had that caused intermittent cutting out was the fuel filter. The small rubber seal in the middle of the fuel filter got rucked up and wasn't sealing properly. A friend had a similar problem which turned out to be the fluff in his Britpart (of course) fuel filter getting wadded up against the holes in the top of the filter casing and restricting the fuel flow. It's just a can stuffed with fluff, surely even Britpart can't get that wrong. Oh yes they can.

OK, so there's a few more suggestions.
 
Brown said:
I had something similar a few years ago when my ECU was in the process of failing. It would run very roughly with a good deal of smoke, and leave 'peak charge long' errors on the Nanocom. If these were cleared it could be started and would run fine, until it happened again. Eventually it would not make the engine run properly at all and the ECU repair firm that had previously mended it said they couldn't fix it and gave me refund. It's also possible to have an ECU which appears healthy on the Nanocom but be useless for starting the car. I've got one upstairs like that in my Land Rover Black Museum. I've now got two working ECUs, one running the car and another I carry with me on outings as a spare. It's also handy for diagnostic purposes - swap 'em over and see if the fault persists.

I don't think anyone's mentioned oil in loom yet. Have a look at the multiplug where the wires go onto the cylinder head (on the (UK) driver's side of the engine near the front) and see if there's any oil visible. As the Defender's ECU is mounted a long way from the engine it often doesn't make it as far as the ECU, but by the time it's reached the plug there's enough to cause trouble.

Another problem I've had that caused intermittent cutting out was the fuel filter. The small rubber seal in the middle of the fuel filter got rucked up and wasn't sealing properly. A friend had a similar problem which turned out to be the fluff in his Britpart (of course) fuel filter getting wadded up against the holes in the top of the filter casing and restricting the fuel flow. It's just a can stuffed with fluff, surely even Britpart can't get that wrong. Oh yes they can.

OK, so there's a few more suggestions.
Click to expand...
Thanks so much. Got a great set of ideas and posters from everyone now..:: fingers crossed !
 
NigeC said:
Thanks so much. Got a great set of ideas and posters from everyone now..:: fingers crossed !
Click to expand...
Ok all - answer….

Faulty ECU. Gratec (Maldon) put their spare on today and she started in 2 secs. Thank you Stephanie and team!

Ecu sent for recon / swap.
 
NigeC said:
Ok all - answer….

Faulty ECU. Gratec (Maldon) put their spare on today and she started in 2 secs. Thank you Stephanie and team!

Ecu sent for recon / swap.
Click to expand...
Ok so victory was not so simple.

Driving yesterday and Landy cut out again. Was working perfectly. Fuel pump and all fuel system is fine (most replaced!). Ecu is perfect. She was running beautifully and then just cut out. Once again cranks but does not start.

Loom has no oil present.

When it was running I took it to an auto elecs to look for any potential elec faults but they couldn’t see anything so also gave it a clean bill of health. I guess when it is running, faults are not easy to diagnose….

Could this be an elusive earth problem????
 
Wow that’s a great article….! Thx so much.

No fault codes on the Nanocom - but gut still tells me it is the harness. Similar symptoms with random cutting out when running perfectly.

A couple of the earths were a bit loose - so have reseated and tightened those up. Also replacing the fuel pump (just in case).. After that can only be the harness I guess.
 
NigeC said:
Wow that’s a great article….! Thx so much.

No fault codes on the Nanocom - but gut still tells me it is the harness. Similar symptoms with random cutting out when running perfectly.

A couple of the earths were a bit loose - so have reseated and tightened those up. Also replacing the fuel pump (just in case).. After that can only be the harness I guess.
Click to expand...
Ok slowly making progress.

She seems to have stopped random stalling now, but moved onto a different issue - revs limited. Won’t go above 35mph. Almost as though there’s a limiter in place - bit none exists.

Nanocom is now showing 10,2 fuel pump drive open load (logged). Seems to point to a relay issue?

There are 3 fuel relays on TD5 - two with usual 4 pin spade connectors and one 5 pin. 5 pin plugs in on a panel infront of gear stick. The other two are located between driver and passenger. Trying to track down the R103 (is it different to the R100 - assume so…?). Anyone know the spec and where to get. Seems to have wider spades. Thx.
 
NigeC said:
There are 3 fuel relays on TD5 -
Click to expand...
It's only one fuel pump relay which can trigger that fault code: R103(C0730), p/n YWB000150..., R100 is the so called "main relay" not for fuel pump, if this fails the engine doest start at all, as you didnt say what year is your's i can just guess it's pre-2002

1730394670950.png
 
sierrafery said:
It's only one fuel pump relay which can trigger that fault code: R103(C0730), p/n YWB000150..., R100 is the so called "main relay" not for fuel pump, if this fails the engine doest start at all, as you didnt say what year is your's i can just guess it's pre-2002

View attachment 329165
Click to expand...
Ah thanks! Yes it’s 2000.

Is it a 30Amp or 40Amp relay?

Sorry - not an electrician as you can tell ! :)))
 
I'll mention my experience on a different car. Main symptom was refusing to start/hiccups/eml. Diagnostics pointed to the fuel relay. Fuel pump was running exactly as it should. Swapping similar relays, same fault. In the end I took apart every connection between the relay and ecu - 2002 car, every contact was 'clean', but had a slightly milky appearance. Liberal sprayed them with contact cleaner and plugging/unplugging multiple times. That sorted it.

btw, there are probably plugs on the backs of the fuse/relay boards. They were tarnished too.

Long/short. I think that maybe the ecus are a bit too sensitive!
 
boguing said:
I'll mention my experience on a different car. Main symptom was refusing to start/hiccups/eml. Diagnostics pointed to the fuel relay. Fuel pump was running exactly as it should. Swapping similar relays, same fault. In the end I took apart every connection between the relay and ecu - 2002 car, every contact was 'clean', but had a slightly milky appearance. Liberal sprayed them with contact cleaner and plugging/unplugging multiple times. That sorted it.

btw, there are probably plugs on the backs of the fuse/relay boards. They were tarnished too.

Long/short. I think that maybe the ecus are a bit too sensitive!
Click to expand...
Strange thing is that if I take the relay out completely, the vehicle still starts fine. Don’t understand !!!😂.

Running awful though. I checked the injectors codes are correct just as a random thought - they are. Just seems to hesitate and be rev limited. Sometimes runs 10mph faster than at other times. No idea at all. New relays coming bit have also booked it into Foleys over Harlow way to see if they can see anything. Maybe Hotwire the fuel pump and bypass the relay (or maybe that has already been done ). No idea.

One day it will prob just work and we will never know why….
 
NigeC said:
Strange thing is that if I take the relay out completely, the vehicle still starts fine. Don’t understand !!!😂.

Running awful though. I checked the injectors codes are correct just as a random thought - they are. Just seems to hesitate and be rev limited. Sometimes runs 10mph faster than at other times. No idea at all. New relays coming bit have also booked it into Foleys over Harlow way to see if they can see anything. Maybe Hotwire the fuel pump and bypass the relay (or maybe that has already been done ). No idea.

One day it will prob just work and we will never know why….
Click to expand...
Odd. While you're waiting, are there any similar relays you can swap to see what happens?
 
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