D2 TD5 loom extension issues

baronvonprepper · Dec 12, 2016

Has anyone run a loom extension in an Auto D2?

A friend has a TD5 auto, that chucks up the M&S when the extension is plugged in.

Unplug it and it's all back to normal.

Read the fault codes both with and without extension, and the faults were the same each time, however when we looked at some of the other tabs inside nanocom (inside the auto box selection), it said it couldn't communicate with the ECU, however when we unplugged the extension, I could get inside these bits and activate them.

This is the second loom to be sent out, as the first one also done it.

Do the looms work with autos?

Does the loom need to be programmed in, instead of being the plug and play system it is sold as?

disco me · Dec 12, 2016

surely a loom extension is purely that, i.e it extends the wires from A to B to allow re-location of the ECU,
sounds like something in extension not wired correctly, or poor quality so resistance dropping current/voltage below that needed by ECU to function correctly..

sierrafery · Dec 13, 2016

IMO that extension loom is dedicated for defender then cos it seems it misses the CAN bus wiring for the autobox management... see if the extension has wires connected to pins 32 -35 of the red plug
see pin disposals

baronvonprepper · Dec 13, 2016

sierrafery said:
IMO that extension loom is dedicated for defender then cos it seems it misses the CAN bus wiring for the autobox management... see if the extension has wires connected to pins 32 -35 of the red plug
see pin disposals

View attachment 112866

That is one thing we did wonder, as it all worked fine apart from the auto box, putting it into limp mode. The guy selling it says he hadn't had this issue before but I think we have now all come to the same defender conclusion

baronvonprepper · Dec 13, 2016

disco me said:
surely a loom extension is purely that, i.e it extends the wires from A to B to allow re-location of the ECU,
sounds like something in extension not wired correctly, or poor quality so resistance dropping current/voltage below that needed by ECU to function correctly..

You would have thought that, but we are going to have a look at the cars loom and the extension to make sure all pins are the same, but as mentioned below I'm not sure if there is the option for the auto box, as the loom extensions are pretty much built for the defender only

CPB46 · Dec 14, 2016

I looked at the plugs yesterday, and it looks as though all wires are present and accounted for. The guy that supplied the looms plugged the returned one into his D2 auto and had the same problem, ruling out the possibility of it being anything to do with our cars wiring. As it stands the guy has said to send the loom back for a refund, but we are still looking to move the ECU.
Has anybody bought a loom for an auto and it work?

sierrafery · Dec 14, 2016

Even if the can-bus wiring is connected to those pins it must be a special twisted wire setup to work, if they just connected the two connectors with simple wires this will not transmit the CAN messages hence the M+S warnings...i dont hink the manufacturer took this thing into acount at all

baronvonprepper · Dec 14, 2016

CPB46 said:
I looked at the plugs yesterday, and it looks as though all wires are present and accounted for. The guy that supplied the looms plugged the returned one into his D2 auto and had the same problem, ruling out the possibility of it being anything to do with our cars wiring. As it stands the guy has said to send the loom back for a refund, but we are still looking to move the ECU.
Has anybody bought a loom for an auto and it work?

Well looks like that's got to the bottom of that issue. Guess it's time to email other suppliers and ask if they have the correct wiring to allow use on Auto TD5

neilly · Jan 12, 2017

Hi @baronvonprepper ,

Did you your mate find anywhere that made a good working loom extension that worked for an auto?

Cheers

baronvonprepper · Jan 12, 2017

neilly said:
Hi @baronvonprepper ,

Did you your mate find anywhere that made a good working loom extension that worked for an auto?

Cheers

Not as far as I am aware currently, however when the guy got it back and tested it on his auto, alas it didn't work, again I think he contacted terrafirma after and asked them if their loom would work on a auto. They didn't know so they tried and and alas, theirs didn't work either. So as far as I'm aware. Auto extended loom is currently a no go, as originally it was made for a defender, and I don't think they do an auto defender?

neilly · Jan 12, 2017

@baronvonprepper

Have heard this a few times recently, crazy that the supplier did not think of this

. Thanks for the update.

Cheers

The Mad Hat Man · Jan 12, 2017

@sierrafery @neilly
what year is that pinout from, because it differs from the colour codes we use to manufacture ECM extension cables. The only twisted pair cable we are aware of is the TPS.

neilly · Jan 12, 2017

Hi Mad hat man.

No Idea, the drawing was given by Sierrafery. I do not know which version of Rave was used.
EDIT: Rave Manual states 03 MY. from what I can see, the drawing appears to be the same.

I have not looked at it to be honest. I know of two people this has happened with, both autos.

None of the suppiers seem to identify if it is compatible with autos and manuals. Or if it is different for a certain MY.

Cheers

The Mad Hat Man · Jan 12, 2017

NP
Thanks for PM.
I have copies of the different MY Raves and there appears to be no specific difference in Auto wiring that I have seen. Would be interesting to see if anyone knows of any.

d8moa · Jan 12, 2017

Where did he get the loom from? After one for my manual d2

The Mad Hat Man · Jan 12, 2017

They are about £300

sierrafery · Jan 13, 2017

The Mad Hat Man said:
@sierrafery @neilly
what year is that pinout from, because it differs from the colour codes we use to manufacture ECM extension cables. The only twisted pair cable we are aware of is the TPS.

it seems that yo are aware of something completely illogical cos there's no need for twisted cable for TPS and there's not any in reality, the TPS signal is analogic pure voltage, the CAN must be twisted and with specific quality cos it's a serial data bus and i'm sure that the extension loom doesnt have such thing fitted that's why it's unproper for an auto

Controller Area Network (CAN) system
The CAN system is a high speed serial interface between the ECM and the Electronic Automatic Transmission (EAT)
ECU. The CAN system uses a data bus to transmit information messages between the ECM and the EAT ECU.
Because there are only two components in this CAN system, one will transmit information messages and the other
will receive information messages, and vice-versa.

If you really want to understand that arm yourself with much patience and prepare your neurons for some torment then check this out http://canlab.cz/pages/download/CAN-Wiring.pdf

The Mad Hat Man · Jan 13, 2017

TPS is actually a screened cable. Screened Twisted pair is just convenient.

sierrafery · Jan 13, 2017

IMO better think more about this cos it's not like you say at all.... unless you confuse the TPS(which means throttle position sensor for me) with CKP = crankshaft position sensor , that's a screened twisted wire.... the TPS has 7 wires connected to it so it can't be a "twisted pair"

The Mad Hat Man · Jan 13, 2017

sierrafery said:
IMO better think more about this cos it's not like you say at all.... unless you confuse the TPS(which means throttle position sensor for me) with CKP = crankshaft position sensor , that's a screened twisted wire.... the TPS has 7 wires connected to it so it can't be a "twisted pair"

you are correct. From memory, I thought it was the TPS, but checking our circuit diagram, it is the CKP.

D2 TD5 loom extension issues

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