clarify towing grammar

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Jay reKx

Active Member
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tenbury wells
I know the subject has been done to death, but after reading a lot of info and being told many differing things many different people over the years, I think I've nearly distilled the facts, but have yet to find a definitive answer to this:

[Licences held from 1st January 1997]
a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as it is no more than the unladen or ‘kerb’ weight of the towing vehicle (with a combined weight of up to 3,500kg in total)

does the 'it' in bold refer to the trailer specific MAM or the actual trailer+load weight?

for instance (if pulled by a 2 tonne disco) the MAM of the trailer is 3 tonnes, but the actual load was only for example a hundred kilos, would it still be permissable to tow? or is it the trailer MAM which is counted in the 3,500kg calculation regardless of the actual load/trailer weight?

https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car

ta
JKx
 
does the 'it' in bold refer to the trailer specific MAM or the actual trailer+load weight?

for instance (if pulled by a 2 tonne disco) the MAM of the trailer is 3 tonnes, but the actual load was only for example a hundred kilos, would it still be permissable to tow? or is it the trailer MAM which is counted in the 3,500kg calculation regardless of the actual load/trailer weight?
https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car
ta
JKx
The it refers to the trailer and any load in the trailer (grammatically the it refers back to the previous piece of text "a trailer over 750kg MAM".)
With a post 1997 cat B licence, if your Disco weighs 2 tonnes you can tow a trailer weighing up to 1.49 tonnes including its load.
 
thanks for replying guys, but thats two different answers ... see where the confusion arises :p

The it refers to the trailer and any load in the trailer (grammatically the it refers back to the previous piece of text "a trailer over 750kg MAM".)
With a post 1997 cat B licence, if your Disco weighs 2 tonnes you can tow a trailer weighing up to 1.49 tonnes including its load.

you're saying that even if the trailers plated with a 3 tonne MAM, if it + the load physically weighs 1.49 tonnes or less thats ok. whereas livers says I cannot tow a 3 tonnes plated trailer regardless of the actual load weight as the rated weights of the trailer and vehicle, regardless of load, equal more than 3,500kg


JKx
 
If you have a gay 750kg licence a plant trailer plated to more then 750kg and say weighing 750 kg empty can't be towed
 
thanks for replying guys, but thats two different answers ... see where the confusion arises :p



you're saying that even if the trailers plated with a 3 tonne MAM, if it + the load physically weighs 1.49 tonnes or less thats ok. whereas livers says I cannot tow a 3 tonnes plated trailer regardless of the actual load weight as the rated weights of the trailer and vehicle, regardless of load, equal more than 3,500kg


JKx
The weight on the plate on the drawbar is taken as the weight of the trailer! It does not matter if the trailer is actually loaded or not.
 
This aint very clear is it. So what weght legally can be towed by a disco 1? Or n my case me ht 90?gross weight 2505 kerb weight 1887kg.....
 
This aint very clear is it. So what weght legally can be towed by a disco 1? Or n my case me ht 90?gross weight 2505 kerb weight 1887kg.....
If you are licensed you can tow 3500kg trailer. With fully loaded trailer, you must not load the vehicle so much that the train weight exceeds the maximum permitted.
 
B liscence is for driving cars. B+e is for towing with a car.(or van up to 2.5 tons but thats not helping)
 
B liscence is for driving cars. B+e is for towing with a car.(or van up to 2.5 tons but thats not helping)
Just had a look and I think a B only licence is no good for towing, or only tidgy trailers. I passed car test in 1980 and have always towed up to 3500kg with suitable vehicle.
 
When did you pass your test?

The laws changed last January, again.

Before January

If your disco has a maximum weight of 3500kg then you can tow a trailer of 750kg making a train weight of 4250kg. If the disco is less than 3500kg, think you said 2550kg then you can tow a trailer of 950kg making a train weight of 3500kg.

After January

Can only tow a trailer of 750kg as long as the mam of the train weight does not exceed 3500kg

As I was told by a traffic officer in a pub one night, if the car and trailer look ok and are legal (number plates, lights etc) then the chances of being pulled by them is very slim, if vosa stop you or you are involved in an accident (even if not your fault) you will be done for no licence, thus no insurance so an instant 6 points. With 6 points it's a court appearance and fine of around £800.

I did my B+E for £360. Easy then as I can drive any vehicle and tow a trailer to it's maximun towing weight. But there is another bad area, if your towing vehicle is plated at towing a trailer of 2700kg you can't tow a trailer with a mam above that.

It's all mind blowing ****e. There is good info that explains it well on the aa website.
 
This is turning into another thread of opinions and interpretations. ;)

Someone needs to find out the facts from someone with authority and post the results with proof.
 
Licences issued from 19 January 2013
From 19 January 2013, drivers passing a category B (car and small vehicle) test can tow:

small trailers weighing no more than 750kg
trailers weighing more than 750kg, where the combined weight of the towing vehicle and the trailer isn’t more than 3,500kg
If you want to tow a trailer weighing more than 750kg, when the combined weight of the towing vehicle and trailer is more than 3,500kg, you’ll have to pass a further test and get B+E entitlement on your licence.

You’ll then be able to tow trailers up to 3,500kg.

If you passed your driving test before 1 January 1997 then you will most likely be entitled to drive a vehicle and trailer up to a combined Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) of 8.25 tonnes.

If you passed your driving test after 1 January 1997 then, unless you have taken an additional driving test – the 'B+E' car and trailer test – you may only drive a category B3 vehicle coupled with;

A caravan up to 750kg MAM, or
A caravan over 750kg MAM as long as the combined weight of the car and caravan is less than 3500kg Gross Train Weight (GTW) and the MAM of the caravan is less than the unladen weight of the car.
More about driving licence entitlements (Direct.gov) »

The car and trailer (B+E) test
You book the car and trailer test in the same way as the standard practical test but will take it at an LGV test centres rather than a normal driving test centre.

You take the test in an unladen category B vehicle towing a suitably braked, unladen trailer of at least one tonne MAM.

The vehicle must be fitted with:

External mirrors on both sides for use by the examiner or any person supervising the test
A device (audible or visual) to show that trailer indicators are operating correctly
The trailer must have a closed box body at least as wide and as high as the towing vehicle so that the view to the rear must be by the use of external mirrors only.

More about the car and trailer test (Direct.gov) »

Tow brackets
Tow brackets must be tested to the appropriate British or European standard and use mounting points recommended by the vehicle manufacturer.

Cars registered since 1 August 1998 must only be fitted with a 'type approved' bracket tested to European Directive 94/20/EC. The bracket will have a label, plate, or stamping detailing the type approval number and the vehicle for which it is an approved fitment.

Some vehicles are not rated for towing by the vehicle manufacturer – no gross train weight will be shown on the VIN plate – and are not able to have a towbar fitted. An example is the Ford KA which has no declared train weight, and no mounting points for a tow bar.

Check with the vehicle manufacturer if you intend to tow but are unsure if the vehicle is suitable.

For tow bracket fitting we recommend using a business approved under the National Trailer & Towing Association's (NTTA) Quality Assured scheme.

Unbraked trailers
The maximum you may tow – combined weight of trailer and load – using an unbraked trailer is 750 kg.

The towing vehicle must have a kerbside weight at least twice the loaded weight of the trailer.

Trailer width
Until recently UK regulations on trailer width were different to the rest of Europe – the maximum width allowed here was 2.3m compared to 2.55m across the channel.

UK rules changed from April 2010 and you are now permitted to tow a trailer or caravan up to 2.55m in width behind a car or goods vehicle weighing less than 3500kg.

Towing on an A-frame
An A-frame or recovery dolly can only be used legally to recover a vehicle which has broken down.

If you tow a car that hasn't broken down using an A-frame or dolly then the law treats the combination as a trailer which must meet the appropriate braking and lighting rules.

Trailers below 750kg don't have to be fitted with braking systems, but if a braking system is fitted to a trailer of any weight – as is clearly the case for a car – then the braking system must operate correctly. This is not possible for normal systems fitted to cars, particularly the brake servo, which would not be working unless the engine was running.

Trailer regulations also require the fitting and use of a secondary coupling system to ensure that the trailer is stopped automatically if the main coupling separates while the trailer is in motion or, in the case of trailers, up to a maximum mass of 1,500kg that the drawbar is prevented from touching the ground and the trailer has some residual steering.

To comply with lighting regulations while being towed, the car (in its capacity as a trailer) would need triangular red reflectors and the number plate of the towing vehicle.

The simplest and safest way to tow a car behind a motorhome is to use a car transporter trailer. This can be done completely legally as long as you make sure you don't exceed the towing car's Maximum Permissible Towing Mass and the Gross Train Weight (maximum permitted weight of car and trailer combined) specified by the car manufacturer.

Weights
Caravan
The actual laden weight of the Caravan must be less than its Maximum Technically Permitted Laden Mass (MTPLM)1, the new term for gross weight shown on the caravan 'weight plate'.

The caravan's Maximum Technically Permitted Laden Mass (MTPLM) must not be greater than the towing car's Maximum Permissible Towing Mass (MPTW) defined by the car manufacturer.

Mass in Running Order (MRO) is the unladen weight of the standard specification caravan as it leaves the factory. From 2011 this includes some items that used to be part of the 'user payload' – gas bottles, water in toilet/heating systems, hook-up and battery. Check caravan data carefully to make sure you know what's been included in the MRO figure quoted.

Tow car
You must not exceed the Maximum Authorised Mass2 (MAM) – the weight of the car fully laden including passengers, luggage tow bracket and the nose-weight of the caravan.

The combined actual laden weight of the car and caravan must not exceed the Gross Train Weight (GTW) – the maximum permitted weight of car and caravan together specified by the car maker.

Mass in Running Order (MRO) or Kerb Weight is defined by the vehicle manufacturer and normally includes a 90% full fuel tank, and the driver but no load other than standard equipment/tools. MRO doesn't include the weight of the tow-bracket.
 
if you tow an unbraked trailer with a max load of 749kg then you dont need a trailer ticket.
if you tow a braked trailer over 750kg you need to have a pre 1997 license or pass a trailer test to add "e" to your luicense.with out this your uninsured to be on the highway when towing.
 
I emailed Wheeler Dealers asking them how they managed to get the max towing weight of a Sprinter uprated from the 2000kg standard so they could tow a 2 ton Rangie (on a trailer) with it.

I'm still waiting for a reply :)
 
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