Chasing a Current Leak

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Before you completely condemn the Lion brand of Lead acid batteries (I’ve no knowledge or inside interest in them) it might be well to remember that the quickest way to lose capacity of a Lead Acid battery is to discharge it heavily and leave it discharged for any length of time. This is especially true of batteries built for the automotive industry. If your alternator isn’t charging effectively you might be killing the battery and blaming the battery unfairly. Vehicle batteries aren’t built to be deep discharged and certainly not deep discharged and left for anything more than a short period of time. (Think minutes not days or weeks.)

I work in the marine industry some of the time and the Traction Batteries we use for heavy and prolonged discharge and recharge cycles are built differently and are eye wateringly expensive compared to an off the shelf Land Rover battery. Even then, you extend their life dramatically by ensuring they are never discharged more than 50%
 
If it's any help, My 200tdi disco alternator is putting 14.5v across the battery at idle. This makes me suspect your alternator is past it's best. That's charging a 10 year old battery, measured at the cigarette lighter socket. It drops off as load is added of course.
 
j_g_uk said:
Before you completely condemn the Lion brand of Lead acid batteries (I’ve no knowledge or inside interest in them) it might be well to remember that the quickest way to lose capacity of a Lead Acid battery is to discharge it heavily and leave it discharged for any length of time. This is especially true of batteries built for the automotive industry. If your alternator isn’t charging effectively you might be killing the battery and blaming the battery unfairly. Vehicle batteries aren’t built to be deep discharged and certainly not deep discharged and left for anything more than a short period of time. (Think minutes not days or weeks.)

I work in the marine industry some of the time and the Traction Batteries we use for heavy and prolonged discharge and recharge cycles are built differently and are eye wateringly expensive compared to an off the shelf Land Rover battery. Even then, you extend their life dramatically by ensuring they are never discharged more than 50%
Click to expand...
This is the battery I've got. It's probably just out of it's two year guarantee. LINKY It says Latest Calcium-Calcium Technology.
To be fair there seems to be a lot of posts above in support of the battery being carped. Together with it being a replacement as the first one was faulty from the start, has led me to lose faith in the brand.
I'd rather it was the alternator as I'm pretty sure it's the original 1996 one and so would have earned it's retirement.
 
I may be wrong here, but I believe Calcium batteries are intended for newer vehicles with smart-charge alternators. However I think they are backward compatible, as in you can put them in an older vehicle but not lead acid into a smart charging system. If the 13.x volts you were getting is at the alt terminal as well as at the battery then the alternator does seem past its best
 
Kev12 said:
I may be wrong here, but I believe Calcium batteries are intended for newer vehicles with smart-charge alternators. However I think they are backward compatible, as in you can put them in an older vehicle but not lead acid into a smart charging system. If the 13.x volts you were getting is at the alt terminal as well as at the battery then the alternator does seem past its best
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Cheers, I'll Google that to find out more about it. Bought the battery from the local motor factors, but the person on the desk at the time may not have been a battery expert.
I'll test the voltage at the alternator terminals at the weekend. looks like that will be the acid test. (pun intended, but pointless for a calcium-calcium battery :rolleyes:)
 
@Kev12
I've found this.

Sun 8 Mar 2009 07:17
Calcium batteries with a dynamo equipped Minor? - jc2
Calcium batteries can be charged by any sort of charging system including dynamos but "smart" alternators must be used with a calcium battery.Lincon are still in business.

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Sun 8 Mar 2009 10:04
Calcium batteries with a dynamo equipped Minor? - jc2
Should be the other way around-"Don't use a non-calcium battery if you car is fitted with a "smart" alternator".In other words,calcium batteries can be used on all vehicles and,I am told,will soon be the only type available.
Edited by jc2 on 08/03/2009 at 10:07

I copied these two posts from this thread LINKY
 
To be clear, both are regular flooded batteries, what you call a lead acid battery is just that. The more modern calcium batteries are still lead acid, but the lead is actually a lead/calcium alloy
 
kermit_rr said:
To be clear, both are regular flooded batteries, what you call a lead acid battery is just that. The more modern calcium batteries are still lead acid, but the lead is actually a lead/calcium alloy
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Cheers, yeah. I've been reading about them tonight.
 
Tonight's figures on tick over:
Across battery terminals = 12.89v
Positive terminal to chassis = 12.89v
B Terminal to chassis = 12.89v

So, the square root of sod all difference wherever.
As the alternator is 22yrs old I might as well replace it and see how the new (ish) battery behaves then.
Is it worth going for the bigger 100amp alternator? Should I get the bigger alternator for the heavy duty battery I've got or will it not make a lot of difference? What's a reliable brand these days?
 
Totally agree with new alternator. Those figures suggest there’s very little wrong with the wiring. (No guarantees without hands on tho’)

IMHO you only need a bigger alternator if you’ve started loading the vehicle up with power hungry extras. If you’ve got winches and super power hungry lights and sound systems then you might justify going for a bigger alternator. The only other reason might be because there’s virtually no price difference? (This I doubt..)

Lots of people don’t realise that a 100 Amp Alternator will only give out 100 Amps under ideal and exceptional circumstances. The battery has to be big enough and in a state that will accept 100 Amps (as the charge penetrates the plates the ability to accept charge goes down) and furthermore as the alternator heats up it derates itself. There are other factors but hopefully you get the idea.
 
j_g_uk said:
Totally agree with new alternator. Those figures suggest there’s very little wrong with the wiring. (No guarantees without hands on tho’)

IMHO you only need a bigger alternator if you’ve started loading the vehicle up with power hungry extras. If you’ve got winches and super power hungry lights and sound systems then you might justify going for a bigger alternator. The only other reason might be because there’s virtually no price difference? (This I doubt..)

Lots of people don’t realise that a 100 Amp Alternator will only give out 100 Amps under ideal and exceptional circumstances. The battery has to be big enough and in a state that will accept 100 Amps (as the charge penetrates the plates the ability to accept charge goes down) and furthermore as the alternator heats up it derates itself. There are other factors but hopefully you get the idea.
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That all makes sense. I'll get a 65amp one. After all, the current one has done a decent job for 22years - can't complain. :)
 
Al2O3 said:
I've just been looking on Paddocks and ebay in preparation for replacing it. What make would you recommend?
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Marelli. Got mine from Devon 4x4 (3 years ago) and decided to go for the 100Ah since the cost difference was minimal and I have extra loads (sometimes). An easy swap although you'll need to change the drive pulley - they'll advise on why.
 
ogb said:
Marelli. Got mine from Devon 4x4 (3 years ago) and decided to go for the 100Ah since the cost difference was minimal and I have extra loads (sometimes). An easy swap although you'll need to change the drive pulley - they'll advise on why.
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They just seem to do Britpart, Denso and LR ones now.
Any idea if Britpart ones are made by Lucas?
 
I've bought a Lucas one :) Should be here by Friday and then I'll see how the battery performs after that's fitted. Thanks for all the posts, I learned a lot, cheers.
 
Last edited:
IMG_0502.JPG

The new, shiny alternator has arrived :)
 
Fitted the new alternator this morning. Typically, not straight forward.
Took the fan and pulley off the old alternator and the pulley is threaded and screwed on to the rotor shaft.
IMG_0506.JPG

However, the pulley just slides over the threads of the new rotor shaft, but has a big sprung washer instead.
IMG_0507.JPG

Suppose there's not too much force on there even at full lelecrical load.
Next issue is the thin bolts that run through the alternator to hold it together aren't long enough to fit the heat shield back on :mad:
Also, the bottom bolt hole on the new alternator is threaded, old one clearance hole :mad:
It's a tad irritating :rolleyes:
Anyway, giving the battery a top up with the charger before I try it.:)
 
Al2O3 said:
Fitted the new alternator this morning. Typically, not straight forward.
Took the fan and pulley off the old alternator and the pulley is threaded and screwed on to the rotor shaft.
View attachment 171357
However, the pulley just slides over the threads of the new rotor shaft, but has a big sprung washer instead.
View attachment 171358
Suppose there's not too much force on there even at full lelecrical load.
Next issue is the thin bolts that run through the alternator to hold it together aren't long enough to fit the heat shield back on :mad:
Also, the bottom bolt hole on the new alternator is threaded, old one clearance hole :mad:
It's a tad irritating :rolleyes:
Anyway, giving the battery a top up with the charger before I try it.:)
Click to expand...

Last one I had, ( I keep filling them up with mud, not sure how that happens:eek:).

I also found there was one hole that was threaded, simply drilled it out.

Cheers
 
neilly said:
Last one I had, ( I keep filling them up with mud, not sure how that happens:eek:).

I also found there was one hole that was threaded, simply drilled it out.

Cheers
Click to expand...
Aye, one hole was threaded on mine.
Right, now I'm frightened to touch it :eek:
Discovered old alternator had extension pieces
IMG_0508.JPG

Tremendous! Get the heat shield on now and job done:)
Putting heat shield it place and I got a spark and nearly shat myself. I'd already reconnected the battery. :oops:
I'm worried cos original unit has these electrical units connected to the heat shield bolts
IMG_0511.JPG

The new one doesn't. Is this an issue or did I just short across from the B+ post with the heat shield?
 
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