Antifreeze pouring out of 258 84 CJ7

I thought the head gasket was bad because the antifreeze has 2 channels
at the back of the motor close to where the antifreeze was coming out.

The head gasket was ok, but it looks as though the broken head bolt at
the back of the engine and/or the loose (the last lower exhaust
manifold bolt want even present) manifold bolts may have been the
culprit.

I have everything back together now and am just running down an
apparent vacuum leak. ...I didnt label the hoses well enough!

the motor is goes (at fast idle):
brrrrrrrrrrrr-pup-brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr-pup-brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr-pup-
etc....

Any ideas?

Im in a non-Echeck city and was considering dropping the emissions
stuff all together...mostly because I am having a difficult time
identifying the parts on the vacuum diagrams that I have found on the
net.

What lines are absolutely essential to make this thing run?

Yup, that sure sounds like a vacuum hiccup.

The charcoal canister would be my first guess.

I have my 86 set up with no emissions computer or junk on it including
no CAT converter and it passes emissions anyway with really low
numbers. On the ASM 2525 test I got 589 NOx and 16 ppm HC and 0.11%
CO. California calls for 875 NOx. I beat them with no cat even. LOL!

It isn't hard to disable the computer. I run 2 new wires rather than
mess inside the harness like some folks do in their internet writeups.
I run 2 new wires connecting the orange and purple wires at the
distributor directly to the orange and purple wires at the ignition
module that is locate Wayyyyy down on the driver's side fender under the
washer bottle.

You then will need to set the timing because it will have jumped about
15 degrees and then pop the covers off the carb's idle mix screws to
manually set up the idle mix. I force it full rich first or if I am
helping finish the job, I can use needle nosed pliers to pull the needle
from the stepper motor on the carb's back as far into the carb as it
will go.

Here is a couple links on doing the mod:

http://home.sprynet.com/~dale02/ignmods.htm And
http://www.off-road.com/jeep/jnutter1.htm

It gives a sweet 25% seat of the pants power boost. My CJ7 will top out
at 4400 rpm now. 52 mph in 2nd, 75 mph in 3rd, 4th buries the speedo
and I have 'no' urge to find out how fast 5th will go.... I get a nice
23 mpg on the highway too.

This is a good site on all CJ stuff, worth the read:
http://home.sprynet.com/~dale02/list.htm

For needed vacuum lines I run the back drivers side corner nipple up to
the air filter flap control in the bottom of the air filter.

I run the nipple on the valve cover side to the distributor to give it a
ported vacuum signal. I 'T' that ported line and run it to the CTO
valve on the back nipple that is closed when cold and passes to the
front open when hot. I blow through them to see which is which but it
usually is the one closest to the carb.

From there I go up to the air filter temp switch on the back side and
from there down to the EGR valve. I T this line at the EGR to feed the
charcoal canister purge valve located down under the brake MC. (This is
the one I think you have screwed up by the way)

I have the PCV in and at the back of the carb I have a T in the PCV line
to go to the charcoal canister main purge. You might have a solenoid
thing at the back there. Garbage it because they usually only caused
oil to fill the air filters anyway and the fix was to put a T in.

I have all the other vacuum nipples blocked. The two large float bowl
vents go to the charcoal canister as well as the gas tank vent. That
canister has an air filter on the bottom that needs replacing now and
then. It is about a two buck filter. The first one is a pain to get
out, the next ones just tuck in.

All the rest of those vacuum lines and switches can be tossed in the
garbage. Out of sight out of mind idea.

If you have AC you might want to hook up a switch with 12 volts for the
solvac idle stepper to give you a fast idle when the AC is on. The
computer used to do that, not any more.

Hope this helps,

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

pkaser wrote:
>
> I thought the head gasket was bad because the antifreeze has 2 channels
> at the back of the motor close to where the antifreeze was coming out.
>
> The head gasket was ok, but it looks as though the broken head bolt at
> the back of the engine and/or the loose (the last lower exhaust
> manifold bolt want even present) manifold bolts may have been the
> culprit.
>
> I have everything back together now and am just running down an
> apparent vacuum leak. ...I didnt label the hoses well enough!
>
> the motor is goes (at fast idle):
> brrrrrrrrrrrr-pup-brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr-pup-brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr-pup-
> etc....
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Im in a non-Echeck city and was considering dropping the emissions
> stuff all together...mostly because I am having a difficult time
> identifying the parts on the vacuum diagrams that I have found on the
> net.
>
> What lines are absolutely essential to make this thing run?

OK...here is what was causing a mis-fire...the rocker arm bolt for #6
exhaust was tight but loose...like something wasnt allowing it to
tighten...the push rod wasnt seated on the cam apparently. Took the
bolts out and reseated the pushrod then retightened bolts. My buddy
stood on the valve cover while I fired it up and whallah...purred like
a kitten. I also didnt see any antifreeze leaks. I still have to
reset the timing though. That was what we first messed with thinking
it sounded like it was off. After we futzed with that without any
success, we took the valve cover off...and found the above. My cover
was broken in about 10 different places so I went to a junkyard and
pulled one off an 85-ish AMC Eagle...only $10!

I think this weekend I am going to "Nutter" bypass the computer...only
problem I see is my wires off the distributor are red and green...not
orange and purple. I am also putting in a mechanical temp gauge
tomorrow. Im gonna have to get another job just to pay for all this
"fun"!

Thanks for all the help and suggestions Mike and everyone!

Pat

I would be wanting to know what has been put in, in place of the Jeep
distributor? Your wire colors imply a non stock one.

There are several aftermarket types of distributors out there.

I would be checking to see if someone has either taken out the ignition
module or maybe has already bypassed the computer. If it has been
bypassed, the purple wire at the ignition module will be hooked up.
Stock the purple wire 'at the ignition module' isn't attached to
anything.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

pkaser wrote:
>
> OK...here is what was causing a mis-fire...the rocker arm bolt for #6
> exhaust was tight but loose...like something wasnt allowing it to
> tighten...the push rod wasnt seated on the cam apparently. Took the
> bolts out and reseated the pushrod then retightened bolts. My buddy
> stood on the valve cover while I fired it up and whallah...purred like
> a kitten. I also didnt see any antifreeze leaks. I still have to
> reset the timing though. That was what we first messed with thinking
> it sounded like it was off. After we futzed with that without any
> success, we took the valve cover off...and found the above. My cover
> was broken in about 10 different places so I went to a junkyard and
> pulled one off an 85-ish AMC Eagle...only $10!
>
> I think this weekend I am going to "Nutter" bypass the computer...only
> problem I see is my wires off the distributor are red and green...not
> orange and purple. I am also putting in a mechanical temp gauge
> tomorrow. Im gonna have to get another job just to pay for all this
> "fun"!
>
> Thanks for all the help and suggestions Mike and everyone!
>
> Pat

I'll check...I'm thinking the guy said it was for a Ford...maybe...I
didnt pay that much attention when he said it.

Is there any place to put an aftermaket mechanical gauge that uses 1/4"
sensor that I wont have to drill and tap?

Did the Nutter bypass. What a piece of cake! Upon further inspection
the red & green wires were from the coil not the distributor.

I also installed a new temp guage. What is the normal temp of a 258
idling?

Mine has it's moments.... Normally mine runs in the center of the
range. When I run her hard in 4 low or keep up with traffic for
extended periods at 75 to 80 mph she will get just to the bottom of the
red zone. It has never boiled over, but...

I have a fixed 4 blade fan on but it didn't come with a shroud. It also
doesn't have an overflow bottle so it isn't full to the top when cold.
It is full when hot.

I have a Warn winch and 2 Hella Black Magic lights blocking some of the
flow....

With the 'nutter' bypass you might want to try different octanes of
fuel. Mine runs best on esso or exxon 91 octane 'real' gasoline (no
alcohol). With that I get a nice 23 mpg running at 65 to 70 mph.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

pkaser wrote:
>
> Did the Nutter bypass. What a piece of cake! Upon further inspection
> the red & green wires were from the coil not the distributor.
>
> I also installed a new temp guage. What is the normal temp of a 258
> idling?

She's running very well...except it likes to die at stop lights. Also
running at about 215 deg. F which is warmer than I think it should. I
shut it off when it gets that hot.

Im thinking it's the water pump. Grinding coming from under the hood
(I originally thought it was the power steering pump) and the radiator
is cool to touch even after reaching 215. If I squeeze the upper hose
(and kind of manually pump) the radiator warms up along the top. I
know its not the thermostat because it's brand new.

Oh! And with the cap off the coolant barely moves if at all!

215 is normal. A 50/50 mix of coolant and water under 15 psi pressure
should be good to about 265 or so before it boils.

You should have flow and a hot rad at 215 though. You could have a bad
thermostat or pump. Thermostats can be bad out of the box unless the
overheating was the reason for the change. Is the pump 'new'? They
make 2 different pumps that fit on that engine. One is a normal
rotation pump for a V belt, the other is a reverse rotation pump for a
serpentine belt.

It dies at a light.... It could if you have an automatic because the sol
vac is no longer in the loop. You would then need to bump up the idle
speed slightly.

How hard was it to get the carb mix screws set stable? If it was a
pain, then you might have to clean out the idle pickup tubes. They have
crimped ends that get blocked with dirt and need a physical ream with a
piece of wire or a metered file or drill bit like they use to clean
welding torch tips. I oversized mine slightly which helps. The venturi
cluster can be carefully removed from the top. You just need to take
the choke plate out and the venturi will twist around and come out.

You can check them by looking down the running carb while giving it a
shot of gas. You should have mists of gas coming out the venturis, if
there are any drips of gas, the tubes are plugged. Here is a good site
on cleaning them if needed:
http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/carter.html

The other thing could be a sticky EGR valve. That can cause stalls as
you decelerate to a stop. You can disconnect the vacuum line and block
it to test that.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

pkaser wrote:
>
> She's running very well...except it likes to die at stop lights. Also
> running at about 215 deg. F which is warmer than I think it should. I
> shut it off when it gets that hot.
>
> Im thinking it's the water pump. Grinding coming from under the hood
> (I originally thought it was the power steering pump) and the radiator
> is cool to touch even after reaching 215. If I squeeze the upper hose
> (and kind of manually pump) the radiator warms up along the top. I
> know its not the thermostat because it's brand new.

I will take the cap off at temp to check.

I replaced the thermostat because it was running hot.

It's a 4 speed manual...Im going to double check the vacuum lines one
more time to make sure I have it right before I ream out the pickups.

I will check out the egr valve today.

pkaser wrote:
>
> I will take the cap off at temp to check.
>
> I replaced the thermostat because it was running hot.
>
> It's a 4 speed manual...Im going to double check the vacuum lines one
> more time to make sure I have it right before I ream out the pickups.
>
> I will check out the egr valve today.

Have you flushed the rad recently? They can get blocked....

Make sure the feed for the EGR originates at the port on the valve cover
side of the carb. This is the 'ported' vacuum that only turns on when
the throttle is open.

Mike

Yep, I flushed it when I had the original leak. I drained all of the
coolant out of the radiator and let the hose run through the cap and
drain out the bottom drain plug.

When I remove the cap I do see some minor calcification. I was
thinking though that since the radiator got warmer when I pumped the
upper hose that it was probably just an overall lack of flow through
the system, since the radiator did get warm after the coolant "flowed"

I will be more than happy to clean the radiator with a chemical cleaner
if you have any suggestions.

Any way you could sketch your "post-Nut-op" vacuum diagram and put it
on the web for all to enjoy?

I appreciate all the help Mike!

Please 'DON'T' open the rad when hot!!!!!! Leave the cap off while it
warms up to watch.....

I would be thinking pump or T-stat.

I have a good link to CJ stuff already on the web. Check the index at
this site, but here is the breakdown on the vacuum systems. This site
shows you the before and after setups and is a very well written one.

http://home.sprynet.com/~dale02/vac-egr.htm

http://home.sprynet.com/~dale02/vac-tac.htm

http://home.sprynet.com/~dale02/vac-mcu.htm

Mike

pkaser wrote:
>
> Yep, I flushed it when I had the original leak. I drained all of the
> coolant out of the radiator and let the hose run through the cap and
> drain out the bottom drain plug.
>
> When I remove the cap I do see some minor calcification. I was
> thinking though that since the radiator got warmer when I pumped the
> upper hose that it was probably just an overall lack of flow through
> the system, since the radiator did get warm after the coolant "flowed"
>
> I will be more than happy to clean the radiator with a chemical cleaner
> if you have any suggestions.
>
> Any way you could sketch your "post-Nut-op" vacuum diagram and put it
> on the web for all to enjoy?
>
> I appreciate all the help Mike!