Antifreeze pouring out of 258 84 CJ7

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P

pkaser

Guest
Here's the deal:

Just bought this Jeep from a guy and 10 miles after I bought the Jeep I
stop at a light and steam pours out from the hood. Upon inspection,
the steam is coming from the very back of the engine. All of the
heater hoses look good and the freeze plug is intact. I can drive it
about a mile before it heats up and starts steaming and I loose almost
all of my antifreeze.

I welcome any and all suggestions!

Patrick

 
pkaser wrote:
> Here's the deal:
>
> Just bought this Jeep from a guy and 10 miles after I bought the Jeep I
> stop at a light and steam pours out from the hood. Upon inspection,
> the steam is coming from the very back of the engine. All of the
> heater hoses look good and the freeze plug is intact. I can drive it
> about a mile before it heats up and starts steaming and I loose almost
> all of my antifreeze.
>
> I welcome any and all suggestions!
>
> Patrick
>
Blown head gasket.

--
..boB
Arrived: 2006 FXDI, Red.
1997 HD FXDWG - Turbocharged Stolen 11/26/05 in Denver
1HD1GEL10VY3200010 CO License J5822Z
2001 Dodge Dakota QC 5.9/4x4/3.92
1966 Mustang Coupe - Daily Driver
1965 FFR Cobra - 427W EFI, Damn Fast.

 
I've run my hands along the heads and dont feel or see any coolant. Is
there any place else that may be leaking? The engine runs perfectly.
Also, the steam seems to becoming from the coolant hitting the exhaust
(bell housing is covered in coolant) and coming up from the back of the
engine, but Im not sure that that is where the leak is. There is no
discoloration in the overflow tank either...as green as green gets.

I would hate to replace the head gasket and come to find out that wasnt
it.

 
On 9 Apr 2006 20:28:44 -0700, "pkaser" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I've run my hands along the heads and dont feel or see any coolant. Is
>there any place else that may be leaking? The engine runs perfectly.
>Also, the steam seems to becoming from the coolant hitting the exhaust
>(bell housing is covered in coolant) and coming up from the back of the
>engine, but Im not sure that that is where the leak is. There is no
>discoloration in the overflow tank either...as green as green gets.
>
>I would hate to replace the head gasket and come to find out that wasnt
>it.


Check two things here. First make sure the the thermostat is not stuck
closed and if it is not, the radiaitor may be plugged. You do not want
to overheat that engine much because it can warp the head. I would not
be in a hurry to tear engine down to replace head gasket right now.
Besides, if head gasket is blown, the head will be warped too and need
to be milled flat again because they do not just blow for no reason.
-----------------
The SnoMan
www.thesnoman.com
 
I highly recommend you get the Haynes CJ manual. It isn't expensive and
it is right on for almost everything, especially the wiring.

Your intake manifold has coolant running through it. The long intakes
and exhaust manifolds will come loose sometimes. It would be worth
checking. They tighten up starting in the center and going out in a
spiral pattern like tightening up a head gasket.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

pkaser wrote:
>
> Here's the deal:
>
> Just bought this Jeep from a guy and 10 miles after I bought the Jeep I
> stop at a light and steam pours out from the hood. Upon inspection,
> the steam is coming from the very back of the engine. All of the
> heater hoses look good and the freeze plug is intact. I can drive it
> about a mile before it heats up and starts steaming and I loose almost
> all of my antifreeze.
>
> I welcome any and all suggestions!
>
> Patrick
 
I will try tightening the manifolds right now and report back to you.

Thanks!

 
I havent tried tightening the manifolds yet. I crawled under the jeep
and I can't see ANY PLACE where the coolant is leaking out. I let it
run for a minute and nothing.

The majority of the antifreeze was on the drivers side (and the ground)
and was covering the master cylinder. Could this may have been caused
by the guy I bought it from filled the radiator fluid while cold and
antifreeze overflowed from the top and covered everything and it just
took the exhaust and the block to heat up to evaporate it off?

I have the Haynes manual for the jeep and have been scouring over it
all day looking for places that this leak could be coming from.
Unfortunately, there isnt much detail on the cooling system other than
water pump, thermostat and basic diagrams. It doesnt even show the
coolant temperature sensor on the 258.

Speaking of which, where is the coolant temperature sensor? It doesnt
work so I am not sure if the enigne was even over-heating. Maybe I
will start by fixing that first to monitor the temperature.

I again appreciate all the input!

 
You are describing a pinhole leak that likely needs the engine fully hot
to **** a small stream out. A heater hose is suspect. The one from the
manifold on the drivers side across to the firewall on the other side.
Or a pin hole in the rad can shoot the fluid back there. My battery
kept getting covered with antifreeze. I couldn't find the leak for a
long time. It was one of the rad cores that needed full hot pressure to
**** this little stream out....

The temperature sender is at the drivers side top of the head at the
back with a purple wire on it.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

pkaser wrote:
>
> I havent tried tightening the manifolds yet. I crawled under the jeep
> and I can't see ANY PLACE where the coolant is leaking out. I let it
> run for a minute and nothing.
>
> The majority of the antifreeze was on the drivers side (and the ground)
> and was covering the master cylinder. Could this may have been caused
> by the guy I bought it from filled the radiator fluid while cold and
> antifreeze overflowed from the top and covered everything and it just
> took the exhaust and the block to heat up to evaporate it off?
>
> I have the Haynes manual for the jeep and have been scouring over it
> all day looking for places that this leak could be coming from.
> Unfortunately, there isnt much detail on the cooling system other than
> water pump, thermostat and basic diagrams. It doesnt even show the
> coolant temperature sensor on the 258.
>
> Speaking of which, where is the coolant temperature sensor? It doesnt
> work so I am not sure if the enigne was even over-heating. Maybe I
> will start by fixing that first to monitor the temperature.
>
> I again appreciate all the input!
 
On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:15:19 -0400, Mike Romain <[email protected]>
wrote:

>You are describing a pinhole leak that likely needs the engine fully hot
>to **** a small stream out. A heater hose is suspect. The one from the
>manifold on the drivers side across to the firewall on the other side.
>Or a pin hole in the rad can shoot the fluid back there. My battery
>kept getting covered with antifreeze. I couldn't find the leak for a
>long time. It was one of the rad cores that needed full hot pressure to
>**** this little stream out....


You are going about this wrong because you are assuming that the
cooling system is working properly when it may not be. Work the
problem before you start looking for gremlins. About 10 miles is all
it would take to overheat if thermostat was stuck or radiator plugged
up. Drive with heater on full blast and I will bet it takes longer to
overheat. If so it comfirms a cooling problem, not a leak.
-----------------
The SnoMan
www.thesnoman.com
 
I am assuming it's overheating (the temp gauge is broken) becuase it is
spilling antifreeze out somewhere. I cleaned the engine completely and
then dried it off. I ran it for about 5 minutes and then shut it off
and looked for steam. The steam doesnt appear to be coming from the
back of the engine so much as the back of the exhaust manifold. I am
letting everything dry for the night and will resume troubleshooting
tomorrow.

I ordered a temp sensor and it should be in tomorrow. I also pulled
the valve cover off and checked the head bolts which seem really tight.

What were not tight were the exhaust & intake manifold bolts.

 
On 10 Apr 2006 17:54:05 -0700, "pkaser" <[email protected]> wrote:


>What were not tight were the exhaust & intake manifold bolts.


They are not supposed to be realy tight as the manifolds "float" a bit
as they expand and contract. Torqe them down tigh and you will likely
crack the exhaust manifold after a few heat cycles.
-----------------
The SnoMan
www.thesnoman.com
 
That is where the heater hose hooks up.

****ing out antifreeze only means you have a leak. That sure does not
mean it is overheating. If it was overheating, when you shut it down,
it would burp copious amounts of fluid out the rad cap into the overflow
and even pour it out of the top of the overflow.

Is your temp sender dead? That would be kind of unusual for the 258.

Here is a good link on the gauges:
http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/electrical/gauges/

The temperature and gas gauges run off a voltage regulator. If the gas
gauge is also dead, I would suspect that regulator.

If you ground that purple wire to the temp sender, the gauge should pin
out hot.

The torque for the exhaust and intake manifold bolts is 20-25 ft lb.

Mike

pkaser wrote:
>
> I am assuming it's overheating (the temp gauge is broken) becuase it is
> spilling antifreeze out somewhere. I cleaned the engine completely and
> then dried it off. I ran it for about 5 minutes and then shut it off
> and looked for steam. The steam doesnt appear to be coming from the
> back of the engine so much as the back of the exhaust manifold. I am
> letting everything dry for the night and will resume troubleshooting
> tomorrow.
>
> I ordered a temp sensor and it should be in tomorrow. I also pulled
> the valve cover off and checked the head bolts which seem really tight.
>
> What were not tight were the exhaust & intake manifold bolts.
 
SnoMan wrote:
>
> On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:15:19 -0400, Mike Romain <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >You are describing a pinhole leak that likely needs the engine fully hot
> >to **** a small stream out. A heater hose is suspect. The one from the
> >manifold on the drivers side across to the firewall on the other side.
> >Or a pin hole in the rad can shoot the fluid back there. My battery
> >kept getting covered with antifreeze. I couldn't find the leak for a
> >long time. It was one of the rad cores that needed full hot pressure to
> >**** this little stream out....
>
> You are going about this wrong because you are assuming that the
> cooling system is working properly when it may not be. Work the
> problem before you start looking for gremlins. About 10 miles is all
> it would take to overheat if thermostat was stuck or radiator plugged
> up. Drive with heater on full blast and I will bet it takes longer to
> overheat. If so it comfirms a cooling problem, not a leak.
> -----------------
> The SnoMan
> www.thesnoman.com

He isn't overheating, he has a leak like the header of the thread says.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
 
Can someone take a photo of the temp sender for me? I am having
trouble locating it still.

 
It is a single post sticking up out of the drivers side rear corner of
the engine head.

The wire leading to it will be purple.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

pkaser wrote:
>
> Can someone take a photo of the temp sender for me? I am having
> trouble locating it still.
 
LOL! Well it is supposed to be purple anyway. I had to clean mine to
figure that out from looking at it...

If you look at the corner of the head right where the valve cover has a
corner you will see a post sticking up there from the sensor or a wire
pushed on the post that is supposed to be purple.

My Windoze doesn't want to talk to my camera today and I don't feel like
uninstalling and reinstalling the damn software again...

Mike

pkaser wrote:
>
> I dont see any wires that are purple...
 
Ok, I got the camera to talk to the windoze long enough to get one photo
down.

I put it here
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=4292126015

It is a crappy photo, but a shadow was across the plug blocking it so I
had to lighten it. You can just view the photo larger without joining
the site.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)



pkaser wrote:
>
> I dont see any wires that are purple...
 
That pic was exactly what I needed! Thanks! I see it now on my head.
I was looking on the intake manifold. The wire looks kinda
purple/kinda brown with a white stripe.

I finally got the manifolds loosened and tomorrow morning I will remove
and inspect the head gasket and report back.

For any one interested it only took about 2 hours to remove everything
to change the head gasket. I am a motor novice and have VERY limited
tools. Had I had the new gasket set and the new head bolts
(http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=ARP-112-3601&N=115&autoview=sku)
I probably would be done and driving it around right now.

I removed the following in pretty much this order:

1. Removed the thermostat & housing
2. Removed air cleaner
3. Removed carb (essential to reach the lower exhaust manifold nuts)
4. Removed valve cover
5. Removed alternator & bracket & power steering pump bracket
6. Removed dipstick support & coil bracket
7. Removed head bolts (excluding the one that broke---that happens
tomorrow) I used the jack pump lever as a breaker bar (limited tools I
said!)
8. Removed top manifold bolts
9. Removed bottom manifold bolts using a 10" extension, a swivel & 9/16
socket. It's tight and tricky...but it works
10. Gave a slight push on the manifolds and everything broke cleanly
away from the heads.

 
What makes you think the head gasket is bad?

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)


pkaser wrote:
>
> That pic was exactly what I needed! Thanks! I see it now on my head.
> I was looking on the intake manifold. The wire looks kinda
> purple/kinda brown with a white stripe.
>
> I finally got the manifolds loosened and tomorrow morning I will remove
> and inspect the head gasket and report back.
>
> For any one interested it only took about 2 hours to remove everything
> to change the head gasket. I am a motor novice and have VERY limited
> tools. Had I had the new gasket set and the new head bolts
> (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=ARP-112-3601&N=115&autoview=sku)
> I probably would be done and driving it around right now.
>
> I removed the following in pretty much this order:
>
> 1. Removed the thermostat & housing
> 2. Removed air cleaner
> 3. Removed carb (essential to reach the lower exhaust manifold nuts)
> 4. Removed valve cover
> 5. Removed alternator & bracket & power steering pump bracket
> 6. Removed dipstick support & coil bracket
> 7. Removed head bolts (excluding the one that broke---that happens
> tomorrow) I used the jack pump lever as a breaker bar (limited tools I
> said!)
> 8. Removed top manifold bolts
> 9. Removed bottom manifold bolts using a 10" extension, a swivel & 9/16
> socket. It's tight and tricky...but it works
> 10. Gave a slight push on the manifolds and everything broke cleanly
> away from the heads.
 
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