Annetts and Orchard - anti-mod?

Hi all,

Just testing the water here to see if I'm being unreasonable:

Car: Defender 90 Td5 truck cab, <10,000 miles per year, social and domestic only.
Me: Male, 34, 8 years NCD, currently paying £537 p.a.

A and O: We can quote you £338.
Me: Brilliant!
A and O: Any mods?
Me: Er, nothing really. Just a normal EGR blank and cat and central silencer delete for more mpg.
A and O: In that case, the quote is £671 [NEARLY DOUBLE!]
Me: Jeeeesus tittyf***ing Christ!

Can anyone tell me exactly why a freer exhaust and a cleaner intake make me twice as much of a liability on the roads? Are the actuarial tables written up by Kim Jong-Un?

VERY disappointed a Landyzone member has taken such a dim view of some trifling mods. But anyway, would love to hear others' views on the subject.

Andrew, as you've decided to post this without waiting for me to respond to your email, I will post my response here as well for others to see.

Andrew,


I’m not sure you understand where we stand here, so I probably haven’t explained myself well enough, my apologies.


Firstly just to clarify, I’m a landy owner and ‘DIY mechanic’ myself. I have a D2 with 4” inch lift, 33 inch tyres, side exit exhaust, HD bumper, winch etc etc. Just so you know where I’m coming from. I’ve also been on landyzone for a good few years now as a fellow enthusiast.


The second quote you received was not from the same insurer as the first, the difference in price is not a simple premium adjustment because of the exhaust modification. The first insurer won’t quote any modifications, and neither will about 10 others that would have been cheaper than the actual quote offered. The one offered was the only ‘normal’ car policy that would accept your mods. That’s just the way it is, most ‘normal’ car policies just refuse to quote any modification, no matter how small.


Now the reason you’ve found our name on landyzone is that we also have a policy available for offroad modified 4x4s. This is designed for ‘weekend toys’. To qualify for the scheme your 4x4 must have at least one major offroad modification (such as a suspension lift), will ideally be a second vehicle and do less than 6,000 miles a year. It must also be used offroad. This policy is excellent value for money for those that fit, but it certainly isn’t suitable for everyone and I have never pretended that it is. We have some insured with just a lift and a snorkel that go out green laning occasionally, we also have some tray back monsters running different chassis, tubular frames, multiple winches etc.


Unfortunately your situation is like many others, in that we just don’t have a policy that fits in the middle. No broker can just quote any policy, you have to apply to each insurer to get their schemes and I can assure I have tried to obtain a policy that the likes of flux can offer that will allow smaller modifications, business use, protected bonus, driving other vehicles etc etc but as a small broker we don’t have much luck. I am still trying though.


I hope this clarifies that the quotes you have received are not disappointing because of ignorance or lack of understanding, we just can’t be all things to all people.

Orch said:

likes of flux can offer that will allow smaller modifications, business use, protected bonus, driving other vehicles etc etc but as a small broker we don’t have much luck.

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No idea what this is all about, but I might just point out that that is not true. Flux run a mile from business use, and arent really interested in insuring anyone except young wackos with silly mods and loads of points, anything where they can charge vast premiums. No interest in insuring middle aged businessmen with good driving records at all. I know, I have called them.

Problems with modifications? Simple. dont modify, unless you are going to drive in comp safari etc. Might be better to spend the money on an off road course, will usually get you further, and wont cost on insurance.

Probably not what you want to hear, but I wouldnt dream of going near these specialist insurers. I have all my vehicle policies( three road, one tractor), with the same local insurer that I insure the house and business with. £160 fully comp on my 90, if I ring them up about mods, they write it down and say carry on as usual!

I just meant that there are policies out there that can fit these circumstances, we just don't have access to them, but not for lack of trying.

Also just to clarify, our specialist vehicle policy is provided by Highway Insurance, part of Liverpool Victoria. One of the biggest insurers in the country.

Ok, Orch. It seems like my problem is with the car insurance industry, rather than with you; but that was the point of my post here - am I being unreasonable, or are the quotes unreasonable? I concede the point that you are a genuine Landy man and understand mods.

I see the situation as this: Clarence is a middle-aged father of 2.4 children who lives in a suburban semi and works a 9-5 office job. His hobby is stamp collecting. His life insurance premium is X.

Clarence wants to start playing squash at the weekend. He tells his life insurance broker, who ups his premium to 2X.

Clarence questions his broker, who says because he's taking up a sport, he needs a specialist insurer. In fact, the broker says, he might as well take up potholing, hang gliding, bear-wrestling and crack cocaine. There is no such thing as occasional exercise, there is only a bland, boring life or extreme adrenaline activities. Nothing in between.

Orch - that fact is, you are on Landyzone. I would wager most people on here will have 'modified' their cars in some minor way. This might be an EGR blank, different tyres, RON box, BMW Td4 cyclone breather, or exhaust changes. We are not necessarily making monster trucks here.

There is a whole spectrum of Land Rover mods. If you can't find a sensible insurer who understands this, and only offers 'all or nothing' premiums, then you need to start looking harder. Whatever you say, even as a messenger, it is NOT fair that making a few piddling little mods to my Landy should double my premium.

An EGR blank and a freer exhaust do not make my Defender an off-road weekend toy. Any insurer who asserts this is a money-grabbing crook.

Turboman said:

No idea what this is all about, but I might just point out that that is not true. Flux run a mile from business use, and arent really interested in insuring anyone except young wackos with silly mods and loads of points, anything where they can charge vast premiums. No interest in insuring middle aged businessmen with good driving records at all. I know, I have called them.

Problems with modifications? Simple. dont modify, unless you are going to drive in comp safari etc. Might be better to spend the money on an off road course, will usually get you further, and wont cost on insurance.

Probably not what you want to hear, but I wouldnt dream of going near these specialist insurers. I have all my vehicle policies( three road, one tractor), with the same local insurer that I insure the house and business with. £160 fully comp on my 90, if I ring them up about mods, they write it down and say carry on as usual!

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@Turboman! Who is your insurer? I'm going there with a tray of pasties and they can have all my insurance business!

I was contemplating typing a great long treatise to fully answer the OP.

However, IMHO here is the answer to the question:-

You are not being unreasonable. The Insurance industry are.

( and just to avoid any doubt, by insurance industry, i do NOT mean the brokers )

Disco1BFG said:

I was contemplating typing a great long treatise to fully answer the OP.

However, IMHO here is the answer to the question:-

You are not being unreasonable. The Insurance industry are.

( and just to avoid any doubt, by insurance industry, i do NOT mean the brokers )

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I've sent a reply to Tom saying exactly this ^^^.

I also pointed out that, as a 'tame' broker on Landyzone, it's not really good enough to say 'our insurers only offer non-mod or completely-modded, nothing in between'. Well, ditch those charlatans and find an insurer who appreciates the spectrum of mods available!

Tom, this is not me trolling. It's a call to arms.

guineafowl21 said:

I've sent a reply to Tom saying exactly this ^^^.

I also pointed out that, as a 'tame' broker on Landyzone, it's not really good enough to say 'our insurers only offer non-mod or completely-modded, nothing in between'. Well, ditch those charlatans and find an insurer who appreciates the spectrum of mods available!

Tom, this is not me trolling. It's a call to arms.

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Agreed. I have been trying to get away from a certain insurance company, and because I have a modified D1, but need business use on it, it seems no one else can cover me!

( have discussed the fiasco with A&O too - Tom was very helpful and honest about it)

Rock and hard place come to mind

guineafowl21 said:

Orch - that fact is, you are on Landyzone. I would wager most people on here will have 'modified' their cars in some minor way. This might be an EGR blank, different tyres, RON box, BMW Td4 cyclone breather, or exhaust changes. We are not necessarily making monster trucks here.

There is a whole spectrum of Land Rover mods. If you can't find a sensible insurer who understands this, and only offers 'all or nothing' premiums, then you need to start looking harder. Whatever you say, even as a messenger, it is NOT fair that making a few piddling little mods to my Landy should double my premium.

An EGR blank and a freer exhaust do not make my Defender an off-road weekend toy. Any insurer who asserts this is a money-grabbing crook.

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A very important point to note here is that I'm not here to get business and I have never advertised. I'm a landyzone member, that just happens to also be an insurance broker. Some happy clients have shared their experiences with others and passed on my name, that's it.

It's also worth noting that insuring 4x4s amounts to about 1% of our business. I only do it because a) I wanted a decent policy for myself and b) I enjoy talking land rovers with people. I have looked for other suitable policies, but the big boys don't want to share their toys. I have no need or desire to look any further or harder. I'm here because I love my landy. It's that simple.

guineafowl21 said:

I also pointed out that, as a 'tame' broker on Landyzone, it's not really good enough to say 'our insurers only offer non-mod or completely-modded, nothing in between'. Well, ditch those charlatans and find an insurer who appreciates the spectrum of mods available!.

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Orch said:

I just meant that there are policies out there that can fit these circumstances, we just don't have access to them, but not for lack of trying..

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@guineafowl21 I think he already answered your point

Ok, well, I might be barking up the wrong tree then. But consider this:

1% of business to me does not imply insignificance, but rather room for substantial growth. There are over 100,000 members on this forum. A substantial percentage of these will have 'modded' their cars in some way. You're looking at millions of extra turnover if you could just find an insurer who knows which way round to hold a screwdriver. Over to you - no pressure.

The Mad Hat Man said:

@guineafowl21 I think he already answered your point

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I know, I know. But I'm saying - TRY HARDER!

Maybe he doesn't want to?

Some peeps are happy with their businesses at whatever size they are

Nyroad up - this shouldn't be personal - its an industry problem - not a particular supplier problem.

It seems the policy hasn't doubled because of a few piddling little mods but the choice of insurance company has been reduced.

That's a very different thing.

Orch does nothing to promote their business here and an attack as a fellow LZ member is unfair.

The insurance industry is a mess and with limited options there's little we can do.

Try getting commercial on a 40 year old vehicle with minor mods

Nail & head.

Thank you chaps.

Yes, I do get the problem here - not Orch, but the industry. I was just hoping that, as a forum, we could invoke change by flocking to an insurer who's not a grabby crook and understands DIY mechanics.

I was also of the (mis)understanding that A and O were associated with the forum as a business.

I offer my apologies to Orch himself - I was not attacking him at all, but rather trying to rectify unfairness in the insurance industry. We are a captive audience, in that car insurance is compulsory by law. This should not be seen as a fleecing opportunity. The disappointment mentioned in the OP was that Orch had not found a fair company. Was that because he's not looked hard enough or because there isn't one? That's what I wanted to know.

£671 instead of £338 just because of a different exhaust is a con. Not Orch's fault, but a con nonetheless. I trust we're all agreed on that. I was just wondering if Orch would be our man on the inside and seek an insurer, just one, who gets modding in all its forms and doesn't just see 'non-mod' or 'all-mod' and nothing in between.

Final thought: How many of us on here are driving around while technically uninsured because we haven't declared a minor mod such as an EGR blank?

No apologies needed and certainly no offence taken. You understand where I'm coming from now and that's all I wanted.

you guys in the UK have very cheap insurance. Try buying insurance in America........

Thor1950 said:

you guys in the UK have very cheap insurance. Try buying insurance in America........

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Oh really? And how do fuel prices compare?! They'll get you one way or another...