Aaron's 90 rebuild (Round 2)

sp00k · Apr 10, 2015

That sucks Aaron, but one way to look at it is that you've done all the hard work - drive adapter, sump, exhaust, plumbing etc. Worst case scenario, if you put a new engine in, it would actually be an easy job now that you've sorted everything.

boguing · Apr 10, 2015

As an outsider, I'd agree with getting another engine. A rebuild would be lovely, but we all know that you're not going to be putting 100,000 miles on it before you sell it, don't we?

And don't beat yourself up - I'll admit to having done that to an engine, post-divorce, half forgot, half couldn't afford the oli. That's far worse than buying it like that.

markSX · Apr 10, 2015

S**t, I feel for you fella.

You were so close.

But you need to look at the positives, at least you hadn't paid out for MOT, tax and insurance just to have it sat on the drive until fixed.
Plus it wouldn't have been running at it's best and you may have been disappointed at the lower than expected performance.

Chin up fella, you know you'll get there in the end, and the first drive will be that much more special.

GATSO · Apr 10, 2015

ABSOLUTELY GUTTED FOR YOU ARRON ,,,,,,,CHIN UP AND YOU WILL SORT IT ,COS THATS THE TYPE OF GUY YOU ARE

aaronmorris · Apr 11, 2015

Radioactive Man said:
Feel for you.

Your work on the rebuilds is first class and I reckon everyone who's read this thread is willing the thing to get finished. Take a day or two away from it. Sure it will be a cracker when it's done!

Cheers bud

I'm willing the thing to get finished too, it just seems against me at the mo.

greyhair said:
****e mate
I feel for you, take a few days before you jump in
If it needs a rebuild You would be the man to do it

Cheers mate, not sure a rebuild is the way to go as I don't know how much is going to be salvageable until stripped. As much as I'd like to do it.
Also taking a few days probably isn't going to happen. It needs to come out regardless of rebuild or replace, so that's probably going to happen this weekend.
I've not really got much time on my hands as it is, so need to make the most of it unfortunately.

danny6801 said:
I might be able to help you with an engine got one with only 130000 kilometres on it. If your interested mate give me a pm. But I am gutted for you as like others have said you have put some effort and work into it.

Cheers for the offer bud, I'll give you a shout when I make a decision.
Or stick it in your 90

sp00k said:
That sucks Aaron, but one way to look at it is that you've done all the hard work - drive adapter, sump, exhaust, plumbing etc. Worst case scenario, if you put a new engine in, it would actually be an easy job now that you've sorted everything.

Yeah it shouldn't be too bad bud. More just awkward and I didn't want to have to do it again.
Having the gearbox/transferbox out is probably the worst bit, although I may just try sliding it back a little.

boguing said:
As an outsider, I'd agree with getting another engine. A rebuild would be lovely, but we all know that you're not going to be putting 100,000 miles on it before you sell it, don't we?

And don't beat yourself up - I'll admit to having done that to an engine, post-divorce, half forgot, half couldn't afford the oli. That's far worse than buying it like that.

As much as I'd like to say no I'll keep it forever, it's probably not true. Truth is I get bored and want change.
But as I said earlier, I'm more attached to this than any other I've done, and their should be enough tinkering to keep me interested in this

Ref the engine, I'd probably be happier if I had done it myself, as at least I'd only have myself to blame through my own negligence.
Whereas now I'm ****ed with myself for not realizing and because I was sold it as a "good" engine.
Still too late now.

markSX said:
S**t, I feel for you fella.

You were so close.

But you need to look at the positives, at least you hadn't paid out for MOT, tax and insurance just to have it sat on the drive until fixed.
Plus it wouldn't have been running at it's best and you may have been disappointed at the lower than expected performance.

Chin up fella, you know you'll get there in the end, and the first drive will be that much more special.

Cheers Mark

That's why I pulled the sump.
Everyone who saw the video of the smoke said it just needs a good hard drive and should clear up.
Ok I thought the same to a certain extent, I just still felt their was an underlying issue.
So I'm glad I've found it now as you've said, or I'd have been even more unhappy.

GATSO said:
ABSOLUTELY GUTTED FOR YOU ARRON ,,,,,,,CHIN UP AND YOU WILL SORT IT ,COS THATS THE TYPE OF GUY YOU ARE

Aye, I'm less ****ed off today. Although I've not started yet

But yeah, I'm sure it'll be sorted soon Gatso

Al2O3 · Apr 11, 2015

Not to worry I'll not burn it really As ****ed off as I am.
I'm more ****ed off with myself that I hadn't realized until now and that I've got to rip it all out again to start all over when it was actually ready for the road.

Feel sick for you, Aaron. I felt ill when I realised my rear quarter panels were not square!

Thing is though we all make mistakes every now and then. I know I do regularly

So don't be too hard on yourself. I'm thinking, if I had your skill and ability, I would go down the rebuild route. Then you are not taking a risk on another used lump that you would be compelled to take apart to check now anyway.

Good luck sorting it, marra. Everyone will have their fingers crossed for ya.

MayorQuimby · Apr 11, 2015

Al2O3 said:
..I would go down the rebuild route. Then you are not taking a risk on another used lump that you would be compelled to take apart to check now anyway.

It really depends how much cash he has available. Buying a decent replacement will be way cheaper and quicker than doing a rebuild.

The reason being is that if it's been starved of oil, it will most likely be a very expensive rebuild as it will need everything. Crank re grind, cam, pistons/rings, all new bearings to match regrind, cylinder head work etc etc etc.

If there's a big budget then a rebuild will yield a better engine. If time and money are limited a replacement is the way to go.

Al2O3 · Apr 11, 2015

MayorQuimby said:
It really depends how much cash he has available. Buying a decent replacement will be way cheaper and quicker than doing a rebuild.

The reason being is that if it's been starved of oil, it will most likely be a very expensive rebuild as it will need everything. Crank re grind, cam, pistons/rings, all new bearings to match regrind, cylinder head work etc etc etc.

If there's a big budget then a rebuild will yield a better engine. If time and money are limited a replacement is the way to go.

Good point, well made! Wouldn't it be great if someone with access to an engineering firm that does regrinds/rebores could do a cheap deal! Like free

aaronmorris · Apr 11, 2015

Al2O3 said:
Feel sick for you, Aaron. I felt ill when I realised my rear quarter panels were not square!

Thing is though we all make mistakes every now and then. I know I do regularly

So don't be too hard on yourself. I'm thinking, if I had your skill and ability, I would go down the rebuild route. Then you are not taking a risk on another used lump that you would be compelled to take apart to check now anyway.

Good luck sorting it, marra. Everyone will have their fingers crossed for ya.

Cheers bud, most definitely learnt my lesson, any engine I buy from now I'll be doing more internal checks.
Ok I can't do that on someones drive, but at least before I fit it in the vehicle

This is probably the biggest f*ck up that's happened to me, and it's a pretty major one.
I felt sick when I realized the amount of wear it had, I honestly never expected anything like that.
Been out stripping it today and didn't even know what to think.

Not sure which way to go yet, but I agree ref another second hand engine.
I'd love to do a rebuild on it because that's just the way I am.
How bad it is and how much it would cost is another matter.
I think I'll strip this engine down and see what I find.

MayorQuimby said:
It really depends how much cash he has available. Buying a decent replacement will be way cheaper and quicker than doing a rebuild.

The reason being is that if it's been starved of oil, it will most likely be a very expensive rebuild as it will need everything. Crank re grind, cam, pistons/rings, all new bearings to match regrind, cylinder head work etc etc etc.

If there's a big budget then a rebuild will yield a better engine. If time and money are limited a replacement is the way to go.

Agreed. And I think it is oil starvation that has caused it, or very low oil.
Both time and money are pretty limited at the mo, but do I need to look at the bigger picture and take my time with it.
Replacement is definitely the easier option.

Al2O3 said:
Good point, well made! Wouldn't it be great if someone with access to an engineering firm that does regrinds/rebores could do a cheap deal! Like free

Cheap is good, free is... Well even better

Although to be honest it's not something I've ever dealt with, and working through it with someone who can advise etc would be better.
I'm wondering whether to do a rebuild on it as a long term project, for well another project in the future

aaronmorris · Apr 11, 2015

Anyway, not what I wanted to be doing anytime soon, but it's all out.

[/IMG]

MayorQuimby · Apr 11, 2015

I know it's a different engine but I bought a wrecked RV8. I think it was a similar deal where someone ran it low in oil. It resulted in having to do a lot of machine work. Crank grind, new Pistons/rings, new cam, cam bearings, new followers, valve guides, lifters, cylinder heads skimmed. Ended up buying a new block, but mainly because one came up at good price. As you can imagine it was a big bill...

Edit: everything is bigger on the cummins, so I would imagine the machine shop bill being bigger to match

aaronmorris · Apr 11, 2015

Well I ended up going back out for an hour to remove a few bits, and decided to pull the head off.

[/IMG]

This was one of the head bolts. Luckily it didn't snap

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

Things where a little oily, but it's to be expected, as no doubt it was passing oil.
Exhaust manifold ports had a little covering when I removed earlier.

[/IMG]

Things don't look too bad considering, can still see the original honing marks, although theirs some weird looking marks on some of the cylinder walls.
Mind I don't really know what I expected.

[/IMG]

aaronmorris · Apr 11, 2015

MayorQuimby said:
I know it's a different engine but I bought a wrecked RV8. I think it was a similar deal where someone ran it low in oil. It resulted in having to do a lot of machine work. Crank grind, new Pistons/rings, new cam, cam bearings, new followers, valve guides, lifters, cylinder heads skimmed. Ended up buying a new block, but mainly because one came up at good price. As you can imagine it was a big bill...

Edit: everything is bigger on the cummins, so I would imagine the machine shop bill being bigger to match

Oh yeah, I can imagine bud. That's the thing that concerns me, because once you start you're committed then.

Brown · Apr 11, 2015

Doesn't look too bad in there. Having dismantled engines that have been over-revved and overheated, I've seen a lot worse. Including bits of piston ring welded onto the bores so as to scrape grooves in the pistons as they went past. So yours look quite good by comparison. There's quite a bit of rust along the far edge of the mating face which suggests the water passages might not have been sealing too well against the head gasket. A bit of judicious scraping and a new gasket should sort it out though.

-Defender110- · Apr 11, 2015

Jesus lad youre having a nightmare with that engine

MayorQuimby · Apr 12, 2015

Hmmm. I don't pretend to be an expert on Cummins engines but those marks on the cylinder bores look odd. Can you feel them with your fingers at all? I'd also be looking at the condition of the pushrods ends, rocker to rocker shaft play, and take a close look at cam including lobes, journals and bearings..

Edit: also just noticed that crowns of pistons 1&6 are as you would expect (sooty) but the rest are all well steam cleaned...

aaronmorris · Apr 12, 2015

Brown said:
Doesn't look too bad in there. Having dismantled engines that have been over-revved and overheated, I've seen a lot worse. Including bits of piston ring welded onto the bores so as to scrape grooves in the pistons as they went past. So yours look quite good by comparison. There's quite a bit of rust along the far edge of the mating face which suggests the water passages might not have been sealing too well against the head gasket. A bit of judicious scraping and a new gasket should sort it out though.

Yes it's better than some engines I've dismantled before too, and better than I was expecting.
The rust along the back edge is a funny one, I thought the same when first removed, but the head doesn't go that far in places, so I recon water could get trapped in them bits and cause it.
Although it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't sealing too well.

-Defender110- said:
Jesus lad youre having a nightmare with that engine

Tell me about it

Starting to wish I never bothered!
All it's doing is causing hassle, had another complaint from council yesterday about "engine noises" Guess it's too loud then

But nope! They can't just complain about one thing at a time can they. Banging noises as well. For f*ck sake! I've hardly done anything for months. Other than tinkering with this piece of ****.
Plus I'm at work all week now, so not every day.
I don't know what to think anymore, it's obviously not working here. Feel like just saying bollocks to it all to be honest.

MayorQuimby said:
Hmmm. I don't pretend to be an expert on Cummins engines but those marks on the cylinder bores look odd. Can you feel them with your fingers at all? I'd also be looking at the condition of the pushrods ends, rocker to rocker shaft play, and take a close look at cam including lobes, journals and bearings..

No me neither bud. I only pulled the head had a quick look and came back inside before I got moaned at.
So not sure if you can feel them yet. Going to do some more strip down today.
It's not something I've seen in bores before.
As for cam I'm sure I could see slight wear on it when looking up from the sump. But we'll see.

aaronmorris · Apr 12, 2015

MayorQuimby said:
Hmmm. I don't pretend to be an expert on Cummins engines but those marks on the cylinder bores look odd. Can you feel them with your fingers at all? I'd also be looking at the condition of the pushrods ends, rocker to rocker shaft play, and take a close look at cam including lobes, journals and bearings..

Edit: also just noticed that crowns of pistons 1&6 are as you would expect (sooty) but the rest are all well steam cleaned...

Think it's the lighting or reflection off the bore making them look like that bud.
Definitely not like that in person.

MayorQuimby · Apr 12, 2015

The only other time I've seen that inside cylinder bores is when "hot spots" have built up due to blow-by on worn rings. If that's the case it will need rebored as new rings wouldn't cure it.
Hopefully it's not that..

Brown · Apr 12, 2015

Yes, the rust is in a funny place, because the rust patches on the mating face don't quite match up with the water holes. I wonder if water could have been creeping between the layers of the gasket.

I know purists probably won't like this, but my attitude to cylinder wear is that until you can click your fingernail on the steps at the top and bottom of the ring travel you don't need a rebore! Doesn't look like you're at that point yet.

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