P38A A series of faults

Thats the ones

Well they were all good :/

In my sideline e-mail conversation with my more electrically savy than I mates we have a bit of a 'ringer' someone with a LOT of first hand knowledge of things LR from a bit higher up the food chain than the dealership; he sadly lives up on Skye these days so is somewhat reliant on my description of the suspension's behaviour rather than being able to lay his hands on it.

There is a possibility that in delving in with EAS Unlock (we were getting some very strange readings out of it last thing on Saturday) I may have confused the EAS ECU to the point where it needs a talking to from a T4-Testbook to clear it's head... a call to RCV in the morning methinks

Slooby said:

While looking at the earth on the OS I also found more work for myself...

The heater matrix has a weap and is splashing drops of pink coolant onto the transmission tunnel carpet

The usual reason for heater matrices to spring a leak is corrosion due to a poor earth...

Click to expand...

If you're lucky just the matrix o-rings where the pipes join. There's a bodgot for that. Matrix is dash out. A bit of a pain. I put the audi matrix in and replaced the ally pipes with rubber.

Slooby said:

In my sideline e-mail conversation with my more electrically savy than I mates we have a bit of a 'ringer' someone with a LOT of first hand knowledge of things LR from a bit higher up the food chain than the dealership; he sadly lives up on Skye these days so is somewhat reliant on my description of the suspension's behaviour rather than being able to lay his hands on it.

There is a possibility that in delving in with EAS Unlock (we were getting some very strange readings out of it last thing on Saturday) I may have confused the EAS ECU to the point where it needs a talking to from a T4-Testbook to clear it's head... a call to RCV in the morning methinks

Click to expand...

You could do with a nanocom to read the codes, as for clearing its head?? It is 1994 tec your talking about and not A.I....
The eas software is OK but can be jumpy and unpredictable. If you can use the T4 then all the better.
As for the connections in the picture that live in the footwell, you will profit from soldering those wires

It's definitely possible to confuse the EAS ECU with either EAS-unlock or Nanocom. After doing diagnostics, etc. with doors closed, always exit from the menus in either device while the car is still running & suspension at normal height. Then with engine still running, disconnect the diag cable, and wait to see if it rises or drops. If it does you probably have height sensor issues.

Finally with car at normal height switch the engine off. If it adjusts after switching off, that will be the self-levelling kicking in.

Slooby said:

These ones then?

They're pristine too if it is them

Click to expand...

Have you parted the connectors to check the pins and for Verdigris between the pins?

Slooby said:

In my sideline e-mail conversation with my more electrically savy than I mates we have a bit of a 'ringer' someone with a LOT of first hand knowledge of things LR from a bit higher up the food chain than the dealership; he sadly lives up on Skye these days so is somewhat reliant on my description of the suspension's behaviour rather than being able to lay his hands on it.

There is a possibility that in delving in with EAS Unlock (we were getting some very strange readings out of it last thing on Saturday) I may have confused the EAS ECU to the point where it needs a talking to from a T4-Testbook to clear it's head... a call to RCV in the morning methinks

Click to expand...

Ball shyte

I note you say the car went to extended height earlier on. That is not possible unless the car is grounded with wheels off the ground, otherwise it will only ever go to wade height.
Have you checked the earthing points around/under the EAS box? Just looking is no good, corrosion cannot be seen on the surfaces unless the nut is undone to inspect.
When the EAS is working, have you checked the calibration?

Grrrrrr said:

If you're lucky just the matrix o-rings where the pipes join. There's a bodgot for that. Matrix is dash out. A bit of a pain. I put the audi matrix in and replaced the ally pipes with rubber.

Click to expand...

+1 on the Audi matrix, gets rid of the need for the O rings. Managed to do mine without taking dash out

Datatek said:

Have you parted the connectors to check the pins and for Verdigris between the pins?

Click to expand...

Yup, absolutely clean as a whistle on both.

Datatek said:

I note you say the car went to extended height earlier on. That is not possible unless the car is grounded with wheels off the ground, otherwise it will only ever go to wade height.

Click to expand...

The sequence of events goes like this:
EAS Valve and Pump pack off car, system completely depressurised.
Refit and plumb EAS Valve and Pump Pack.
Open driver's door start engine, leave door open to allow reservoir to fill.
When pump stops running open drivers window, shut the door. Air bags fill and car goes to wading height.
Get in the car, shut the door, press standard ride height and car goes to standard ride height.
Release handbrake, move gear lever from Park to Drive and dirve around the yard a bit.
Stop, put gear lever back to park and apply handbrake. Car drops to access ride height.
Turn engine off, but put ignition back to position 2 and close drivers window. Car rises to extended ride height greater than wading height with top indicator still flashing.
Start engine again, and press 'down' on height control, flashing on top indicator stops. Press down again to go to Standard height, top indicator solid, standard ride height flashing, car shimy's, pump goes on and off but suspension doesn't go down at all.
Turn engine off.

Left over night doesn't go down at all.

Disconnect battery and leave car alone, with doors all shut, for 10 minutes
Bridge earth cable to positive and leave for 20 minutes.
Remove bridge, reconnect battery, get in, shut door, start engine
All height position indicators lit, then goes to wading height indicator flashing, press down button stops flashing, reset windows, try driving and reseting height to standard, wading height indicator solid, standard height flashing, no suspension movement.
Park up and turn off

The only way to reset it so far has been to manually depressurise the system (I put the shassis on Axle Stands so it doesn't 'drop' too far and onto the bump stops) and start again.

Datatek said:

Have you checked the earthing points around/under the EAS box? Just looking is no good, corrosion cannot be seen on the surfaces unless the nut is undone to inspect.

Click to expand...

I will have another look at the earths in the cvacinity of the EAS Valve Block and Pump unit. There are none underneath it

Datatek said:

When the EAS is working, have you checked the calibration?

Click to expand...

When we were looking with EAS Unlock (door open and closed) and getting the numbers (with the engine running or not) we were experiencing some stange effects where the counts would be sane on one side, and not on the other, ask again and it could be sane front not rear etc etc it was being very strange. Hence the suspicion from more than one quarter about EAS Unlock and the EAS ECU become unhappy and the surefire way to look at it being a T4-Testbook

So far RCV use a generic tool and are booked up till March, Gigglepin have a T4-Testbook and are booked up till March...rapidly having a sense of humour failure and am probably going to have to resort to hiring a 4x4 now as I'm out of time and options

This is what I mean by extended height:

Slooby said:

Yup, absolutely clean as a whistle on both.



The sequence of events goes like this:
EAS Valve and Pump pack off car, system completely depressurised.
Refit and plumb EAS Valve and Pump Pack.
Open driver's door start engine, leave door open to allow reservoir to fill.
When pump stops running open drivers window, shut the door. Air bags fill and car goes to wading height.
Get in the car, shut the door, press standard ride height and car goes to standard ride height.
Release handbrake, move gear lever from Park to Drive and dirve around the yard a bit.
Stop, put gear lever back to park and apply handbrake. Car drops to access ride height.
Turn engine off, but put ignition back to position 2 and close drivers window. Car rises to extended ride height greater than wading height with top indicator still flashing.
Start engine again, and press 'down' on height control, flashing on top indicator stops. Press down again to go to Standard height, top indicator solid, standard ride height flashing, car shimy's, pump goes on and off but suspension doesn't go down at all.
Turn engine off.

Left over night doesn't go down at all.

Disconnect battery and leave car alone, with doors all shut, for 10 minutes
Bridge earth cable to positive and leave for 20 minutes.
Remove bridge, reconnect battery, get in, shut door, start engine
All height position indicators lit, then goes to wading height indicator flashing, press down button stops flashing, reset windows, try driving and reseting height to standard, wading height indicator solid, standard height flashing, no suspension movement.
Park up and turn off

The only way to reset it so far has been to manually depressurise the system (I put the shassis on Axle Stands so it doesn't 'drop' too far and onto the bump stops) and start again.



I will have another look at the earths in the cvacinity of the EAS Valve Block and Pump unit. There are none underneath it



When we were looking with EAS Unlock (door open and closed) and getting the numbers (with the engine running or not) we were experiencing some stange effects where the counts would be sane on one side, and not on the other, ask again and it could be sane front not rear etc etc it was being very strange. Hence the suspicion from more than one quarter about EAS Unlock and the EAS ECU become unhappy and the surefire way to look at it being a T4-Testbook

So far RCV use a generic tool and are booked up till March, Gigglepin have a T4-Testbook and are booked up till March...rapidly having a sense of humour failure and am probably going to have to resort to hiring a 4x4 now as I'm out of time and options

Click to expand...

Putting the car in park and applying the handbrake should not cause the car to drop to access level, it should stay at normal height unless commanded with the dash button to go to access.
There is no way that the RSW EAS software can cause the problems you have. Powering off the ignition effectively resets the ECU.
I and thousands of others have been using EAS unlock for years, over 12 in my case with no problems.
I still think the white connectors could be at fault, it only needs a trace of verdigris between pins to cause havoc.
Failure of the electrolytic in the driver pack can cause the ECU to go a little crazy so trying a different driver pack would eliminate that possibility.
Corroded height sensor connectors or a duff sensor can also cause loss of control which is the only reason I know of that could cause the car to rise beyond wade height.
I would also pull the connector from the EAS ECU and check that for corrosion and Verdigris, is the carpet wet in the passenger foot well?
You do not mention what faults are logged after the excess height episode.

Take screenshots of the EAS-Unlock readings. It might help to see what's stored in your ECU and the actual height reading from the sensors.

There's only two automatic height changes in the ECU. One when you exceed 50mph (goes to Motorway height), and one for grounded body (goes to Extended height). It should never drop to Access unless you tell it to.

+1 on examine the footwell connectors more closely. The pins corrode, and also the wires inside the contact crimps.
Note: the height switch & EAS diagnostics both communicate via C104+C204.

I'm not getting any faults being registered on the dash, and at the weekend while we had it hooked up up to the Desktop (the Serial to USB adapter supplied with my EAS OBD2 cable packed up!) no faults were being logged when it was doing exactly the same thing on the two runs we went through of the 'going through all the heights and then back to the top again' saga then. The last run of this yesterday was without EAS Unlock and just trying to run the car normally, where it behaved in exactly the same was as with EAS Unlock talking to it.

The passenger side of the car carpet is bone dry, but I haven't looked under it or the seat...yet...I'm going to try to get EAS Unlock on to it again shortly before pulling out more trim to hunt for problems.

Besides the white connectors on the near side behind the A Post kick plate are there any others behind the dash or under the carpet I need to check?

I am starting to wonder about the height sensors now as their connectors are certainly the most exposed on the car. I gather that if just one gives a funny response then the EAS ECU can send it to full height. Perhaps I should be looking at these first?

The driver's side carpet is dry, but the underlay is damp (see heater matrix comment), however under the seat is bone dry and I have looked at all the BECM connections previously and they were clean.

I've spoken to three LR specialists locally now and they are all booked up till March. The last one I spoke to was really surprised when I described how clean the connectors were in the EAS Valve and Pump unit, while another pondered whether the height sensors had been over extended and effectively now reading backwards because the arms flipped. I don't think the height sensors have been affected like that as they all have their plastic covers still and those aren't damaged in anyway which one would imagine inverting them would do.

Slooby said:

I'm not getting any faults being registered on the dash, and at the weekend while we had it hooked up up to the Desktop (the Serial to USB adapter supplied with my EAS OBD2 cable packed up!) no faults were being logged when it was doing exactly the same thing on the two runs we went through of the 'going through all the heights and then back to the top again' saga then. The last run of this yesterday was without EAS Unlock and just trying to run the car normally, where it behaved in exactly the same was as with EAS Unlock talking to it.

The passenger side of the car carpet is bone dry, but I haven't looked under it or the seat...yet...I'm going to try to get EAS Unlock on to it again shortly before pulling out more trim to hunt for problems.

Besides the white connectors on the near side behind the A Post kick plate are there any others behind the dash or under the carpet I need to check?

I am starting to wonder about the height sensors now as their connectors are certainly the most exposed on the car. I gather that if just one gives a funny response then the EAS ECU can send it to full height. Perhaps I should be looking at these first?

The driver's side carpet is dry, but the underlay is damp (see heater matrix comment), however under the seat is bone dry and I have looked at all the BECM connections previously and they were clean.

I've spoken to three LR specialists locally now and they are all booked up till March. The last one I spoke to was really surprised when I described how clean the connectors were in the EAS Valve and Pump unit, while another pondered whether the height sensors had been over extended and effectively now reading backwards because the arms flipped. I don't think the height sensors have been affected like that as they all have their plastic covers still and those aren't damaged in anyway which one would imagine inverting them would do.

Click to expand...

When you run EAS unlock, to you see "Good Idle?
There are connectors at the foot of the A post on the drivers side as well as the passenger side.
A failed height sensor can certainly send the car to wade height but will log a fault, in fact that has just happened on my project car today, the fault was logged and read by EAS unlock. Looking at the sensor reading, it was way out of kilter. Using the EAS software to raise and lower that corner produced erratic readings.
It's not possible unless you have incorrect shocks fitted for the height sensor arms to flip.

Ok, will have a closer look at the connectors on the drivers side first

Yeah, we were getting 'good idle' when testing, going to see if I can get my laptop to plug in again with the adapter just in case there was something spurious going on, otherwise it will be a drag the desktop out there again

We were getting erratic reading on all the sensors in EAS Unlock when grabbing data but, as I tried to describe, it was all over the shop as to which sensor was giving an erratic reading one moment to the next...For all the sensors to have 'failed' seems unlikely, but if there were a common ground issue that could explain it I guess

I struggled to see how the sensor arms could have flipped and had a complete 'hmmm' moment about that suggestion. Plus I have been very careful not to have let anything get over extended with axle stands under the chassis and the axles (glad I had enough to do that!). If my Bradbury 4 poster were here and functional this would be so much easier using it and the wheel free units...

Slooby said:

Ok, will have a closer look at the connectors on the drivers side first

Yeah, we were getting 'good idle' when testing, going to see if I can get my laptop to plug in again with the adapter just in case there was something spurious going on, otherwise it will be a drag the desktop out there again

We were getting erratic reading on all the sensors in EAS Unlock when grabbing data but, as I tried to describe, it was all over the shop as to which sensor was giving an erratic reading one moment to the next...For all the sensors to have 'failed' seems unlikely, but if there were a common ground issue that could explain it I guess

I struggled to see how the sensor arms could have flipped and had a complete 'hmmm' moment about that suggestion. Plus I have been very careful not to have let anything get over extended with axle stands under the chassis and the axles (glad I had enough to do that!). If my Bradbury 4 poster were here and functional this would be so much easier using it and the wheel free units...

Click to expand...

Erratic readings from all sensors certainly suggests bad connections somewhere.
No harm in letting the wheels dangle as long as the correct shocks are fitted, going off road will often cause the axles to reach maximum articulation.

Indeed on both counts

USB to Serial definately dead, so just trying to set up the desk top in the car...

Slooby said:

Indeed on both counts

USB to Serial definately dead, so just trying to set up the desk top in the car...

Click to expand...

The earth points on the inner wing around the EAS box have been shown to be a problem in the past. One of them is the earth point for the driver pack and can cause interference to feed back to the ECU causing random faults.