4x4 rescue

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Thanks for that Dave. Now you see, your post has given us more information than I got in a month of asking questions and searching.

I repeat that I think the whole idea of 4x4 response is excellent. What you are doing is great work in helping situations on normal roads when other vehicals fail. The examples on the W4x4R website regarding the February snow and the floods of 2007 show the great work these guys can do. However, the impressions I got from what I saw scared the **** out of me. These guys can not operate off road safely.

Maybe thats it, that is where the confusion in my mind stems from. This is a 4x4 on-road response team, not an 4x4 off-road response team. I'm not convinced these guys have much more knowledge about off-roading as I do. I am the first to admit I am a novice 4x4 driver. I've driven a few green lanes that were not particularly challenging and I've made the best use of this snow to train myself on driving on ice under all road conditions. (First use of the HDC this evening going down a very steep lane on ice, nearly **** me self when the car started sliding forwards as there was no grip at all. Fixed that by shifting sidewise off the compressed snow and on to virgin stuff. Trained myself to stay off the pedals when everything says floor that brake pedal. I'm getting there but I am a novice).

Someone mentioned earlier about different levels of membership. Wessex offers Active and Non-active. There should be more grades in the Active list ranging from on-road jobs, right through to the off-road heavy terrain recovery. There is no way I can be put along side some of the guys in the *S*L*U*T*S* for example when it comes to experienced off roading. However, I can do the kind of work you do and I am experienced at towing.
 
Crickey, didn't realise you had to be a Ham to drive in a 4x4R team?

Here is the kit list for GW4x4R, some of this is supplied, some isn't. Some skills I have, others not.

- Fire extinguisher – at least 1kg
- Gloucestershire 4x4 Response Team Hi-Viz jacket and waistcoat
- Recovery strops – One long and one short to give flexibility in recovery situations.
- Shackles suited to the number of straps carried and all SWL tested).
- Tool kit – as basic as a set of screwdrivers and spanners with a hammer should suffice as a minimum.
- A good torch – Mag-lite are suggested but other brands are suitable. Spare batteries and bulbs are also recommended.
- Shovel.
- Wellies or sturdy boots.
- First Aid kit – preferably with the knowledge of how to use it.
- CB radio.
- Notepad and pencil (pencil more reliable than a pen in most situations).
- OS maps of the local area (162 & 163 as a minimum).
- Change of clothing (We may be working late at night in the wet and cold).
- Saw – bow saw or similar
Work gloves – latex gloves and heavy duty work gloves for personal protection.
- Hard hat.
- A recovery bridle is also recommended to minimise stresses placed on your vehicle under recovery situations.

and here is the training requirements -

* be able to drive in convoy and know basic convoy rules
* ascent of steep slopes/hills
* descent of steep slopes/hills
* Safe recovery of failed hill climb - engine running
* Safe recovery of failed hill climb - engine stalled
* crossing of deep and/or wide ruts
* crossing of ridges
* driving down gullies
* safe driving on side slopes
* wading through deep water - no more than 20 inches
* knowledge of marshalling techniques/ signals and route finding/checking
* awareness of size and positioning of vehicle when driving through obstacles eg. trees
* knowledge of techniques for driving across different surfaces eg. mud/sand/ snow/ice
* have the ability to recover their own or another vehicle by use of a standard tow rope and another vehicle (i.e. towing out)
* ability to navigate to given grid references using OS maps and a compass
* ability to give grid references of position using OS maps and a compass
* ability to use CB radio for effective communication including phonetic alphabet
* knowledge of radio etiquette
* demonstrate the ability to change a wheel whilst on unsurfaced terrain
* know how to diagnose and repair minor faults on their own vehicle
* have the ability to deal with vehicle emergencies - e.g. engine fire
* demonstrate a knowledge of the 4x4 Response and LARA code's of conduct
* all tasks must be completed in a manner which shows consideration to persons who may be either inside or outside the members vehicle
* to remain a member on the call-out register, attendance at a minimum of one 4x4 Response exercise or training day per year is required.
 
Now, here is the same list with everything I do have removed -

- Fire extinguisher – at least 1kg
- Gloucestershire 4x4 Response Team Hi-Viz jacket and waistcoat
- Recovery strops – One long and one short to give flexibility in recovery situations.
- Shackles suited to the number of straps carried and all SWL tested).
- Saw – bow saw or similar
Work gloves – latex gloves and heavy duty work gloves for personal protection.
- Hard hat.
- A recovery bridle is also recommended to minimise stresses placed on your vehicle under recovery situations.

and here is the training requirements -

* be able to drive in convoy and know basic convoy rules
* ascent of steep slopes/hills
* descent of steep slopes/hills
* Safe recovery of failed hill climb - engine running
* Safe recovery of failed hill climb - engine stalled
* crossing of deep and/or wide ruts
* crossing of ridges
* driving down gullies
* safe driving on side slopes
* wading through deep water - no more than 20 inches
* knowledge of marshalling techniques/ signals and route finding/checking
* awareness of size and positioning of vehicle when driving through obstacles eg. trees
* knowledge of techniques for driving across different surfaces eg. mud/sand/ snow/ice
* have the ability to recover their own or another vehicle by use of a standard tow rope and another vehicle (i.e. towing out)
* ability to use CB radio for effective communication including phonetic alphabet
* knowledge of radio etiquette
* demonstrate the ability to change a wheel whilst on unsurfaced terrain
* have the ability to deal with vehicle emergencies - e.g. engine fire
* demonstrate a knowledge of the 4x4 Response and LARA code's of conduct

* to remain a member on the call-out register, attendance at a minimum of one 4x4 Response exercise or training day per year is required.
 
I bought a £80 CB and havent used it either LOL. I expect to get more use when green laning in convoy!

As for the other kit, I forgot to mention that is only recommended in the same way that common sense dictates you take a shovel, blankets and flask in snowy weather. I dont have any flashing lights other than hazards, definitely not blues as I have read some suggesting. I carry a general tow rope (Halfords stretchy type), jump leads, shovel, torch, Fire extinguisher. The rest in personal stuff, blankets, flask, waterproofs, wellies, hat & gloves, hard hat, sweets and chocs :D

The thing is, I hear some on here complaining of the Response group being clicky, which I have yet to see personally.... yet I have heard more crap on this forum for owing a bloody Freelander! At least I'm getting to use it now for a credible reason to the sight of the general public rather than ruining the countryside......... AND YES I KNOW WE DONT!!! But you see my point?

Anyway, I'd be glad of your company anytime mate. Come along to a local meet for a pint and chat. The best way to get rid of idiots is to swamp them with decent blokes :D
 
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all of our team are ham s, the group paid for the course n supply the radios, we just had to buy the antennas, far better range than cb, but then think all the team has cb to.
 
Darmain said:
Crickey, didn't realise you had to be a Ham to drive in a 4x4R team?
Click to expand...
Yu don't but YL4x4 had trouble with the mobile fone network in hull during the 07 floods and as a couple of members had radio licences and the RSGB regional rep was happy to run a free course for all our members. most of the group have gained the basic or (like me) intermediate licence and about 6/7 members have even gone so far as to get their full licences.
 
Skynet said:
Dave, the checking issue has been sorted out. Problem was that the checkers were all in south of region. We now have 3 members in the local area (inc yours truly) who can do the interviews. I am doing one in Melksham and have 1 in Chipp to meet soon.
Click to expand...

just out of curiosity, what qualifies you to be in a position whereby you are able to assess the suitability of potential "members" ?
 
Sean said:
just out of curiosity, what qualifies you to be in a position whereby you are able to assess the suitability of potential "members" ?
Click to expand...


Biggest delay is that Wessex insist all their members undergo a CRB check. meself I think it's pointless cos under no circumstances at all should a responder be left alone with a vulnerable adult or child. Council or SS should always provide a carer or responsible adult to accompany any vulnerable adults or children that need transporting by a responder. & I'd be interested to know how many if any responders have been in a situation where they have been solely responsible for a vulnerable adult or child?? If the answers none then it makes a mockery of the need to be crb'd and if they have needed it then why was the situation allowed to develop in the first place.
 
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The 'interview' is primarily an independent document check for CRB clearance. The assessment of a person abilities takes place on a seperate induction day.

I offered my services as a local North Wilts checker as I have done this before for new St John members. I also knew about the time Darmain had been waiting and though it was excessive. I saw it as another way to help.
 
Skynet said:
I know what you are saying Red, but you never know what situation you could find yourself in if you respond to a request for help.
Click to expand...

But that's just it you should always know. before responding and if you don't then at least 1 other responder should go with you. and if it means dealing with a vulnerable adult or child then a police officer or council worker should also attend.


YL4x4 have never done CRB checks and have evacuated childrens homes and a oap home we just ensured that a member of staff accompanied each car load of peeps.
 
In an ideal world that happens. Even with CRB checks, you should have another adult accompany you when dealing with Child and VA's

You have a bit more credibility with Emergency Services etc, if you have been cleared. Mind you, I'm not implying you have no credibilty if you dont!
 
Skynet said:
In an ideal world that happens. Even with CRB checks, you should have another adult accompany you when dealing with Child and VA's

You have a bit more credibility with Emergency Services etc, if you have been cleared. Mind you, I'm not implying you have no credibilty if you dont!
Click to expand...

I've never been swayed by that argument especially as there are a lot of response groups operating that don't crb members and they don't seem to have credibility issues with local councils.

In fact it's the main thing that has stopped me offering my services to Wessex response.
 
we get to see a fair few of these responders in action, and it's quite scary how little (if any) training and/or experience they have - i guess they mean well BUT some of their actions are simply dangerous

2 examples

- small car rolled down a 20 foot embankment, landed on it's roof with the passenger suspended by the belt, complaining of neck pain - no SRS deployment

the very local 4x4 "rescue" bods were on scene within minutes and had stropped through the A posts and had started to drag the vehicle back up the slope - with the casualty still inside !

- 2 vehicle off sided on a 40 limit road, lots of frontal damage to both vehicles - 1 driver managed to get out, second driver was trapped by the pedals, slight bleed from both ears and very quiet

we arrive on scene to find a community first responder (medical) climbing into the back of the vehicle, after having first forced the drivers seat forward (3 door with the driver still sat in the seat) so that she could get in the back to provide c spine support

I'm all for these groups being used to ferry kit and people around but something has to be done to clip their wings as they are becoming more and more involved in activities they clearly are not qualified for
 
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