300TDI Gearbox or Transferbox

UsInWorld · Dec 21, 2023

Hi

When 300TDI Defender a soft grinding sound is coming from the transmission tunnel, gearstick area. Its specially noticeable in 3rd gear coasting downhill at 30mph. Can just about hear it when dipping clutch. Noticed going into 4th gear recently takes abit more effort than usual, could this be related?

Garage 1 looked at oils and found filings in transferbox (Was refurbished 8 years ago) so they said replacement transferbox

Booked it into other garage who said will do the repair after investigation(Thinking its gearbox output shaft. They now say sound is coming from the gearbox. Gearbox is from what I know original with 190.000 miles

Since both Gearbox and Transferbox needs to be sourced before booking it in for repair.
What garage to believe? From logic would say 1st as metal filings in oil suggest bearing in transferbox.

First garage says Winchester Gears best, tried calling them and seems they are on festive holidays already, other garage says Ashcroft best

Any experts on here that can suggest anything? Both garages are Landy specialists in North of Scotland.

I changed oils in both boxes approx a year ago. And engine 6 month ago. CV joints were both done with 6 years and I did try taking off front propshaft with no difference in sound.

Mr Chaffey · Dec 21, 2023

If you are keeping the vehicle long term change both for Ashcroft unit's and put new propshafts on.
Then expect to replace both differential units .

boguing · Dec 21, 2023

UsInWorld said:
Hi

When 300TDI Defender a soft grinding sound is coming from the transmission tunnel, gearstick area. Its specially noticeable in 3rd gear coasting downhill at 30mph. Can just about hear it when dipping clutch. Noticed going into 4th gear recently takes abit more effort than usual, could this be related?

Garage 1 looked at oils and found filings in transferbox (Was refurbished 8 years ago) so they said replacement transferbox

Booked it into other garage who said will do the repair after investigation(Thinking its gearbox output shaft. They now say sound is coming from the gearbox. Gearbox is from what I know original with 190.000 miles

Since both Gearbox and Transferbox needs to be sourced before booking it in for repair.
What garage to believe? From logic would say 1st as metal filings in oil suggest bearing in transferbox.

First garage says Winchester Gears best, tried calling them and seems they are on festive holidays already, other garage says Ashcroft best

Any experts on here that can suggest anything? Both garages are Landy specialists in North of Scotland.

I changed oils in both boxes approx a year ago. And engine 6 month ago. CV joints were both done with 6 years and I did try taking off front propshaft with no difference in sound.

There are probably going to be a few filings in the tbox oil if left long enough!

The fact that you can hear it most in 3rd gear really does point at the main gearbox.

UsInWorld · Dec 21, 2023

boguing said:
There are probably going to be a few filings in the tbox oil if left long enough!

The fact that you can hear it most in 3rd gear really does point at the main gearbox.

Yes abit of filings seems to be normal

Just collected it from garage and spoke to mechanic and they had it running on 2 post lift and could hear the sound from front of gearbox. Seems to rule out transferbox.
Suggested to change out both with 2nd hand units.
Would much prefer a reconditioned unit to know its long lasting.

Mr Chaffey · Dec 21, 2023

UsInWorld said:
Yes abit of filings seems to be normal

Just collected it from garage and spoke to mechanic and they had it running on 2 post lift and could hear the sound from front of gearbox. Seems to rule out transferbox.
Suggested to change out both with 2nd hand units.
Would much prefer a reconditioned unit to know its long lasting.

Using 2nd hand units will bite you.
Get both units replaced with a core return, new clutch and release fork. Pressure plate and friction plate.New slave cylinder and master because when it's drained the chances of the master cylinder letting go are high.
New propshafts and a handbrake refit.
Couple of other bits like the gearbox mounts and some new floor bolts etc and that should do it.
No point doing anything else really.

boguing · Dec 21, 2023

I'm not sure I'd go as far as @Mr Chaffey. Clutch and fork. yes. Ashcroft gearbox, yes. It's about an hour to an hour and a half's labour if the transfer box needs doing in the future, and since it's not so very old I'd take the chance.

Obviously, if you're not on a budget it's a different matter!

UsInWorld · Dec 21, 2023

Agree what Mr Chaffey is the ideal option to go for when winning the lottery(Along with a galvanised chassis)

Clutch was replaced with a LOF unit in April this year. Propshafts feels solid and I grease regularely + carry 2 UJ's in my spares box.

Very tempting to go for both reconditioned gearbox and transfer box in 1 go. Will see how budget looks after festive period.

Currently got the TDCI 1.2 gearing fitted in the transferbox. Great upgrade for years, thou this year started towing more, and a 1.5T box trailer is be a struggle uphill on motorways. Lorry's overtaking!

To buy new gearset and fitment compared to buying a refurb Defender 1.4 LT230. It might be more economical to the get refurb box..

UsInWorld · Dec 21, 2023

Mr Chaffey said:
Using 2nd hand units will bite you.
Get both units replaced with a core return, new clutch and release fork. Pressure plate and friction plate.New slave cylinder and master because when it's drained the chances of the master cylinder letting go are high.
New propshafts and a handbrake refit.
Couple of other bits like the gearbox mounts and some new floor bolts etc and that should do it.
No point doing anything else really.

If had the extra money would certainly go for what you are saying

Good reminder about the Clutch cylinders as the shaft in the slave cylinder came out during the refit. Bought a spare set as a backup. Will get them changed at same time of the gearbox

dag019 · Dec 22, 2023

UsInWorld said:
Agree what Mr Chaffey is the ideal option to go for when winning the lottery(Along with a galvanised chassis)

Clutch was replaced with a LOF unit in April this year. Propshafts feels solid and I grease regularely + carry 2 UJ's in my spares box.

Very tempting to go for both reconditioned gearbox and transfer box in 1 go. Will see how budget looks after festive period.

Currently got the TDCI 1.2 gearing fitted in the transferbox. Great upgrade for years, thou this year started towing more, and a 1.5T box trailer is be a struggle uphill on motorways. Lorry's overtaking!

To buy new gearset and fitment compared to buying a refurb Defender 1.4 LT230. It might be more economical to the get refurb box..

I always dispute the a 1.2 cannot tow. I know your story is from personal expiriance but it is at odds with my expiriance. I tow fairly regularly with mine. And have never had an issue. I agree a little more challenging up motorway hills but never lorry’s overtaking as I crawl along slow. Maybe tucked in behind one rather than over taking myself. I have a stock 200tdi in a 110 with a 1.2 transfer box. And happily dragged this home last month with no problems.

lynall · Dec 22, 2023

The tfers box are tough very tough, I would not be concerned about a few filings.
The gearboxes on the other hand!

Cannot beat a 1.4 tfer box in a defender.

dag019 · Dec 22, 2023

lynall said:
Cannot beat a 1.4 tfer box in a defender.

If you do 30k miles a year you definitly need the higher gearing for a more comfortable motorway cruise! But it is certainly horses for courses.

lynall · Dec 22, 2023

dag019 said:
If you do 30k miles a year you definitly need the higher gearing for a more comfortable motorway cruise! But it is certainly horses for courses.

If you do 30k a year then you need a more comfortable car, like a disco.

Brown · Dec 22, 2023

Well, some of us actually enjoy driving around in a 'proper' Land Rover. Even on long journeys.

Normal cars feel a bit cheap and plastic-y, and as if the controls are only attached to the mechanism with rubber bands.

dag019 · Dec 22, 2023

Brown said:
Well, some of us actually enjoy driving around in a 'proper' Land Rover. Even on long journeys.

Normal cars feel a bit cheap and plastic-y, and as if the controls are only attached to the mechanism with rubber bands.

Well said that man. Could not agree more. For a while about 10 years ago I had an s type jag. Was a very nice car. But at the time on the drive was that, the 110 and the series 3. The jag was the last one to get picked every time which showed me I did not want a comfortable car. I wanted a proper Land Rover.

lynall · Dec 23, 2023

Brown said:
Well, some of us actually enjoy driving around in a 'proper' Land Rover. Even on long journeys.

Normal cars feel a bit cheap and plastic-y, and as if the controls are only attached to the mechanism with rubber bands.

I had forgotten how good quality the plastic was in a defender!

Rougharse Racing · Dec 23, 2023

Have you tried running it in gear with the transfer box in neutral? If it still makes the noise then you can discount the transfer box and U/J's.

Ollie_Mif · Jan 4, 2024

i personally would make sure you've got breakdown cover and just keep driving the thing until whatever is whining quits whining and gives up, pretty easy to identify what it is then. then get an exchange unit from ashcroft

UsInWorld · Jan 4, 2024

Rougharse Racing said:
Have you tried running it in gear with the transfer box in neutral? If it still makes the noise then you can discount the transfer box and U/J's.

Didn't try that yet, good suggestions and will do it. Did notice during engine on in neutral and keeping revs stable above idle can hear sound very quietly. When dipping clutch its quiet. So something is loose or shaking. Garage said sound comes from front of gearbox. Thinking now it could be clutch. As did a uphill start with heavy trailer and forgot the low box option and made the clutch smelly

A 400+ mile drive a few days ago went fully ok. With no sound in 4th and 5th gear on motorway

Not too far from Lof clutches and Ashcroft so hope to visit to see if they can pin point it.

UsInWorld · Jan 4, 2024

Ollie_Mif said:
i personally would make sure you've got breakdown cover and just keep driving the thing until whatever is whining quits whining and gives up, pretty easy to identify what it is then. then get an exchange unit from ashcroft

Yes that is a option.
Had the Landy for 10+ years and only needed recovery once. And only because I didn't know it as well as do today. The stop solenoid 12v was missing from alarm.

dag019 · Jan 5, 2024

UsInWorld said:
Did notice during engine on in neutral and keeping revs stable above idle can hear sound very quietly. When dipping clutch its quiet. So something is loose or shaking

That just sounds like the release bearing. Which is at the front of the gearbox. But that would not cause any issues they tend to rattle very shortly after fitting a new one so certainly would not go tearing the clutch apart just because of a slight rattle There. It is also likely to separate from the grinding you first described. As the release bearing tends to rattle for decades until it fails by seizing, melting the plastic, and locking the clutch pedal rigid. If you have a metal HD release bearing I have never had one fail!

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