300TDi Auto Conversion

Bad weekend really.
Finished removing the clutch / flywheel, adaptor ring etc but from then on it just didn't seem to go right.

Adaptor ring fits using some of the original fixings but others are not used as when the gearbox is offered up the bellhousing bolts direct through to the crankcase (so they are longer) and these didn't come in the kit. Managed to get around it but a bit peeved.



Flex plate fitted.



Fitting the gearbox was a pain.
Didn't want to go on at first and this turned out to be a locating dowel that wasn't a perfect fit. After that I bolted it together and went to bolt the flex-plate to the torque converter (you have to do this through the starter-motor hole) and I found that the torque converter would not spin to allow me to align the holes. I know it hadn't come dislocated when fitting as I left the clamp in situ right up until the last moment (I had the gearbox sliding fore & aft on four M10 long smooth-shank bolts and supported at the end by the crane so it was very stable). I pondered and eventually found that if I just backed off the bellhousing bolts a turn it was possible to spin the torque converter and align the holes, after that I nipped the bellhousing bolts up again and it turned over ok.
Did some online reading later and discovered that this is very common (just doesn't mention it in the manual).



Final insult was when I went to fit the transfer-box.
I am familiar with my old R380 & LT230 as I had them off 3-years ago when I was having my bulkhead galvanised and made use of the time that it was away to remove the transmission to fit a new clutch and replace a couple of seals. It wasn't really necessary but I had time on my hands and with all that access so it seemed foolish not to. I know how they separate but could I move them apart, could I hell !. It is not RTV, there is the slightest movement and I have inserted a blade so it is not suction, it is a physical lock (and yes, I HAVE removed all the bolts / nut before anyone asks). Thought I would remove the input gear to see if that helps but that is stuck fast as well so I guess that is the culprit. Splines look to be in good order (it is cross-drilled and I can see through the bottom inspection cover that there is no rust holding them together) so I gave it up as a bad job and will look at it again next week.
In the mean time, if anyone has any ideas they will be greatly appreciated.

you normally remove spigot bush ,and check depth of t/c in bellhousing is 1 or 2 mm greater than protrusion of drive plate from rear plate face ,and shim crank boss as required
use a lever bar against front nose of t/box against g/box drain plug till gap appears then wedge open and lever the other side

"you normally remove spigot bush ,and check depth of t/c in bellhousing is 1 or 2 mm greater than protrusion of drive plate from rear plate face ,and shim crank boss as required"
Well spotted, removed it at last moment.
I don't know if it would have caused a problem as DA said that the centre of the TC does not touch the end of the crank but got rid of it anyway.

"use a lever bar against front nose of t/box against g/box drain plug till gap appears then wedge open and lever the other side"
Believe me, been trying and they just won't separate.

providing youve removed the 6 bolts/nuts ,a large hammer and drift then though levers usually works for me and some do get tight

Managed to get a bit more done this weekend but it was also a case of taking 1-step back before taking 2-steps forward.


After some encouragement I decided to use force to separate the transfer-box from the gearbox (something that I had spent considerable time messing about with last weekend), 2-minutes and one belt with a wide-bladed chisel later they were apart with nothing to show what the problem was.

Was slightly concerned about the fact that after fitting the autobox the previous weekend there was an issue with the FP (flexplate) & TC (torque converter) not spinning freely prior to bolting together despite the distances being correct and the TC not fallen forward on assembly. This had been praying on my mind all week so I removed the gearbox and discovered that a bead of RTV had got between the FP & TC providing just sufficient friction to stick them together when the bellhousing was tightened up. I removed the RTV, re-assembled (using new TC bolts) and it went together fine with the TC spinning freely allowing me to line up the holes.
Certainly fitting the gearbox is an awkward task to the uninitiated but having done it once I found it far easier the second time and knew exactly how to slide it fore & aft (I use long unthreaded M10 bolts with the heads cut off) while leaving the TC bracket fitted until the last possible moment to avoid any chance of it (the TC) falling forward. Bolting up the FP to TC is straight forward when you have the knack. I use a long reach socket with a drop of grease in the end to retain the bolt as you pass it through the starter motor hole.

I then struggled to fit the transfer-box. Having first been reluctant to separate from the R380 it would now not mate up to the autobox sitting about 2CM proud. I jiggled, rotated, slid backwards & forwards etc but it still wouldn't have it. In the end I gave up and decided to tackle it the next morning when it promptly decided to slot straight into place. Grrrrrrrrrr.



Kick down cable connected to the pump next.
Nothing difficult there (when you have worked out how the brackets are fitted) but lack of access makes it is fiddly to connect up and set the correct slack. Looks good but to be sure will check it again when the gearbox has been running.



Gearbox dipstick tube.
The one supplied in the kit is obviously for a Disco or RRC but no way is it a direct fit into a Defender as the under-bonnet layout is different. I found that some gentle tube-bending and a DIY L-shaped bracket bolted to the bellhousing was required but it was all pretty easy stuff and the dipstick now sits alongside the airbox. The existing bracket on the tube does not connect to anything (it is slightly higher and sits in a different direction) but have left it in place for now.

I found a hole which looks to be for some kind of sensor in the top of the bellhousing, I am not using it but also I clearly couldn't leave it open so I made up a neat little alloy cover and bolted it into position. Silly little job but only took a few minutes to do.

Finally this afternoon I got stuck into the oil cooler & pipes.
Ashcroft's supply a Discovery oil-cooler and a couple of lengths of flexible pipe with connectors, I did query with David Ashcroft why they don't use Disco items (either standard or modified) and he said that they prefer to use the flexi-pipes as they are easier to route and cut to length. That said, I had already decided that I wanted to use steel Disco pipes and had already ordered a set along with the adaptors for fitting into the gearbox (the connectors in the kit are a different fitting so can't be used).
I fitted the pipes and was pleased that they routed under the engine just as they should so I made up a bracket to support them (obviously the correct bracket is available but I forgot to order it). It is at the front of the vehicle that the pipes don't fit as they are too long so I cut through the flexi sections and then used the solid pipes to check the position of the oil-cooler. I made up some brackets (I had ordered the genuine Disco items as I felt sure I could make them work but they are no-longer available) and with the oil-cooler mounted I can now measure-up and get a hydraulic hose company to make up new (shorter) flexi-sections and connect them up again.


There we go, another weekend gone and I didn't seem to achieve that much but am slowly getting there.
Really I should be spending more time at it but I don't get a chance during the week and I can hardly spend every hour out there at the weekend (can I?).

After a bit of a break I finally managed to get back on it this afternoon, only a couple of hours but every little helps.

Oil-cooler pipes fitted. I had to go back to Pirtek for a second time as I needed two extensions to be made to the steel pipes (I had originally thought that I only needed one) but they fit very well, I am currently using worm-drive clips on the flexi-pipes but will replace these with crimps when I know everything is ok. Certainly the fit of the pipes is far neater than the flexi-pipe supplied with the kit would have been.
With the oil-cooler mounted I have had to loose the diagonal supports for the slam-panel but as people do this anyway when they fit a larger intercooler I can't see it being a problem.



X-Eng hand-brake & seat-box fitted and major electrics connected up (I have an FIA master-switch in the seat-box plus a small aux fuse-box and a couple of ancillary circuits routed through it). I also had to extend the reverse-switch wiring and the gearbox breather as they are different to the R380. Only half complete is the wiring from the gearbox switch which inhibits the starter-motor unless the gearbox is in Park or Neutral, if I hadn't been called in for my tea then I would have finished that little job this afternoon!

Have an issue with the selector shaft and lever otherwise I would have connected the selector up and possibly fired the engine up this afternoon. Have taken some photos and sent them to David Ashcroft for his comments, await his reply with baited breath as I just can't see how they fit together.


Roll on next weekend...............

P.S. Is this the SLOWEST gearbox conversion of all time?
In actual manhours it probably isn't too bad (especially baring in mind the amount of on the job learning involved plus I am having to fabricate the odd bracket here & there) but seeing the vehicle sitting forlorn on the drive when I get home from work every evening gets me really depressed!

nice neat pipework that, good job

Result from David Ashcroft.
He said that it looks like they supplied the wrong lever and the correct one should be with me in a day or two.

jamesmartin said:

dont want to teach you to suck eggs but ensure t/c sits further in bell housing than drive plate sits back from rear of engine by a 1mm or 2

Click to expand...

Sorry to hijack Litch but quick question for yourself or James. I'm about to install my auto box and have never done this. How do I ensure the t/c sit back. Is there a way to measure before it's installed or after. Thanks,

Shane

shanecl said:

Sorry to hijack Litch but quick question for yourself or James. I'm about to install my auto box and have never done this. How do I ensure the t/c sit back. Is there a way to measure before it's installed or after. Thanks,

Shane

Click to expand...

once t/c is fully engaged in the box,measure depth of t/c threaded lug from face of bell housing ,measure the distance outer face of drive plate from rear face of engine, g/box measurement need to be a mm or two greater

Great to see another Auto in the making.
I used std Disco pipes but had a section of the steel pipe replaced with flexi. I mounted the cooler using Disco brackets welded to the rad frame, keeping it at the same height as the Disco. Also fitted an aircon grill to allow me to keep the diagonals.

Thanks James. Waiting on my TC to arrive and will give it a shot

shanecl said:

Thanks James. Waiting on my TC to arrive and will give it a shot

Click to expand...

best way of fitting t/c is to stand box on its end bell housing up,use 2 long m10 bolts screwed into t/c to help turn and lower and lift to turn again to get the 2 sets of splines located then the oil pump,should feel it drop 3 times

Great, thanks James. Last question . What's the torque for the rear output shaft bolt and any trick to stop it rotating when torquing.

shanecl said:

Great, thanks James. Last question . What's the torque for the rear output shaft bolt and any trick to stop it rotating when torquing.

Click to expand...

Don't have the torque figure for the bolt, but for locking the output shaft from turning over while torquing, you have to shift the transmission into park. If you haven't got the cable set up yet, then using the open end of a 13mm spanner, turn selector towards the front of the box as far it will go and you would have engaged the parking pawl.

You can retain the diagonal braces for the slam panel , (important if you are having spare on bonnet ) by using
a different cooler , I used one of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mk2-Mitsu...521241?hash=item3ac58e0199:g:OewAAOSwQItT3pG8
or this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mitsubish...ubishi&hash=item1c43899a61:g:8ukAAOSwiuZTz4Q-
not expensive

Loosing the diagonals is not an issue, I don't carry the spare on there (Puma bonnet) and I like keeping everything as standard as possible hence the Disco oil-cooler and (modified) Disco pipework.
I did look briefly at using an XD gearbox oil-cooler as the brackets are integral to the diagonals but then I would be looking at either using DIY pipework throughout or buying two sets and getting them connected, it would probably have been a nice solution but I didn't want to get too hung up on it hence why I stuck with the Disco items.


Fairly whizzed along today.
With the correct lever I was able to finish connecting everything up and fit the floor / tunnel. Propshafts fitted I fitted the doors, clamped the selector lever to the seatbox, loosely fitted the drivers seat and took it for a spin, great fun!



Happy that the vehicle could now move under its own power I made a start on the console.
As supplied it is designed for SW without a centre bulkhead so I had to trim the rear, no measurements available but there is a (single) picture on Ashcroft's website and after looking at that I could clearly see where the cutting had to be done (just to the underside of the metal bracket which is fitted to the back wall of the console). I was unsure of the best way to do the cutting but in the end decided to use a small disc-cutter in a Dremel, glad I did as it worked perfectly.
Console fits snuggly into place so there was just time to bolt in the selector bracket before the day came to a close.

For some reason I only took a photo as I started to draw the cut lines and don't show them all, will take a photo of the actual cut next weekend (console is not bolted into place yet) which will help anyone else who goes down this route.

Great effort, bet you were well please it rolled on its own

I have considered the centre console but think it is expensive. I just cut a hole in the centre panel.
I do have a later type shifter and I am cosidering adjusting a chubby box and fitting that in some how.

"bet you were well please it rolled on its own "

I certainly was!
It has really given me a boost and I now can't wait to get it finished. I wish I could get onto it in the evenings.

"I have considered the centre console but think it is expensive."

The NAS console is as you say, expensive and I was also worried that it would add too much plastic into my otherwise bare interior (I don't do carpet, sound deadening, mats etc) but at the initial fit yesterday afternoon I was really pleased with the result and you can't get away from the fact that it gives a nice "factory finish" look. It matches the acoustic tunnel cover and makes a nice surround for the shifter & Hi/Low lever. I will miss my security cubby-box both for security and space (storage in the console is only a fraction of what I have been used to) but I am sure I can live with it.
I will refrain from drilling the console and adding power-points until I am certain what I want and where I want them. I had a pair of DIN outlets in the Mud-Stuff console that fitted around the R380 lever but to be perfectly honest I hardly ever used them and instead using the ones on the Raptor console instead.