3.9 V8 RR Won't Start

Evening chaps, I'm new here

2 weeks ago I bought a 93K 3.9 Vouge, the car was in Perth in scotland so i got a friend to go and inspect it for me, it was in very good nik and has an orig 95K on it.

I bought it and then flew to scotland to pick it up, she started on the button and ran totally smoothly, no smoke, nothing.

Pleased with my new purchase i wafted south, until 300 miles later i got to sheffield on the M1 when it just died, cut out, no noise, nothing.

My first thought was fuel pump fuse but not wanting to mess about at the side of the M1 I called the AA out who recovered me to the services. The patrol came out and diagnosed a snapped timing chain, odd i thought since we had spark, but i was tired and wanted to get home.

Anyway next day a mate and i got to work, we had a good spark, plugs were wet and both banks of injectors fire. but the engine simply will not fire, we have checked the timing, which seems spot on. both fuel relays are working fine.

I have fitted a new ign amp, still nothing.

So it went off to a mate who owns a garage and he has worked on and off on it for a week and we have good fuel pressure, good spark, and the valves seem to be closed when cyl 1 is at tdc.

Compression is good on all cylinders, it does however take a few tuns to get to full compression.

I am at the end of my tether with the thing tbh, its not a complicated engine or management system, and yet it has dumbfounded people who know what they are doing ( My friends, not me, I have no idea what i'm doing)

We keep coming back to the fact that the timing chain has slipped, but it was not noisy before hand is not noisy when you turn the engine over, also the dizzy seems to time up correctly and the valves seem to be opening at the correct time, but since its not firing, something must be out of kilter

Any help or pointers would be great, i'm completely flumoxed, just want to take the thing to a rangie specialist but its too heavy for my transporter!

Thanks,

Charlie

maybe a chaffed wire that broke/shorted? would explain why it just died without commotion/banging/missing etc.
If I'd done all the above I would have me multimeter out by now, checking voltages are where they should be at MAF, ignition LT circuit, ignition switch, and basically anywhere I could think of and in the depths of the loom.
Would get an auto electrician on the job if you've already used a mechanic.

just my thoughts

Hope it works out for ya. cheers

phone the guy you bought it off he might no wats wrong or he might of sold it because he couldn't find fault

Hi
Have a look at this link.

Fuel injection

It explains the workings of the ECU and tests to be carried out for fault finding. At the bottom of the page is a link to the factory ECU manual.

Cheers
Graeme

So, is it completely dead, or do you get the odd cough now and then? If you have spark, and compression, and there's not even a hint of life, there can be only a handful of causes:
1. No fuel is getting to the cylinders
2. The fuel is in fact water
3. Ignition timing is way off
4. Spark looks fine but is in fact "cold"

The first I'd try is have someone crank the engine whilst giving it a squirt of starter fluid from a can. If it doesn't catch on this, it won't catch at all and you know you have a spark or compression issue. If it does fire on the starter fluid, you have to check the quality of your fuel, but most likely it will be low fuel pressure. How did you check that the injectors are firing - did you actually pull them out to see that they spray fuel? They may well fire, but if there's no - or insufficient - pressure, you won't get a combustible mixture.
There must be a fairly simple explanation for this, and as you say - if your timing chain slipped, it's unlikely you would see good compression.

Good luck!
Henrik

If the timimg chain had snapped you would know all about it. They do however stretch and this causes the ignition timing to wander but you should still be able to get it to run.

The fact it "just stopped" sounds like an electrical gremlin. Prime suspect has to be either ignition amplifier or possibly the pick up - both can be tested (do a search).

The only other thing that might just die is the ECU, try a substitute ecu and see if that makes any difference.

There is of course one other possibility - it has flooded. Try the old fashioned method of crank it over with your foot to the floor and see if that has any effect.

Henrik97 said:

So, is it completely dead, or do you get the odd cough now and then? If you have spark, and compression, and there's not even a hint of life, there can be only a handful of causes:
1. No fuel is getting to the cylinders
2. The fuel is in fact water
3. Ignition timing is way off
4. Spark looks fine but is in fact "cold"

The first I'd try is have someone crank the engine whilst giving it a squirt of starter fluid from a can. If it doesn't catch on this, it won't catch at all and you know you have a spark or compression issue. If it does fire on the starter fluid, you have to check the quality of your fuel, but most likely it will be low fuel pressure. How did you check that the injectors are firing - did you actually pull them out to see that they spray fuel? They may well fire, but if there's no - or insufficient - pressure, you won't get a combustible mixture.
There must be a fairly simple explanation for this, and as you say - if your timing chain slipped, it's unlikely you would see good compression.

Good luck!
Henrik

Click to expand...

We tried easy start, not a sausage from the engine, fuel pressure has been checked and seems to be fine.

classic kev said:

If the timimg chain had snapped you would know all about it. They do however stretch and this causes the ignition timing to wander but you should still be able to get it to run.

The fact it "just stopped" sounds like an electrical gremlin. Prime suspect has to be either ignition amplifier or possibly the pick up - both can be tested (do a search).

The only other thing that might just die is the ECU, try a substitute ecu and see if that makes any difference.

There is of course one other possibility - it has flooded. Try the old fashioned method of crank it over with your foot to the floor and see if that has any effect.

Click to expand...

New ign amp has been fitted, not sure about the pick up.

I did think ecu but sure the injectors would not fire if the ecu was faulty.

We have pulled the fuel pump relay and cranked it full throttle, it did not make any difference.

The car is of to a specialist tommorow, hopefully they can fix it.

Vixpy1 said:

New ign amp has been fitted, not sure about the pick up.

I did think ecu but sure the injectors would not fire if the ecu was faulty.

We have pulled the fuel pump relay and cranked it full throttle, it did not make any difference.

The car is of to a specialist tommorow, hopefully they can fix it.

Click to expand...

If ECU playing up it could just be overfuelling - have you checked the various sensors?

Also check the condition of the connectors to the coil - the wires break.

Let us know what the specialist says.

Now thats a good idea, and one we have not really explored, so i'm driving along and a sensor fails and the engine floods.

One to explore certainly, I'll get the chap to check the voltages off the maf, tps and coolant temp sensors.

I know this might be considered a daft suggestion but.....If the timing chain has slipped maybe the timing has ended up 180 degrees out, happened on my V8 classic! Worth checking

Henrik97 said:

So, is it completely dead, or do you get the odd cough now and then? If you have spark, and compression, and there's not even a hint of life, there can be only a handful of causes:
4. Spark looks fine but is in fact "cold"


Good luck!
Henrik

Click to expand...

Whats a 'cold' spark?

BTW its worth checking to make sure you don't have an immobiliser fault. The Alarm ecu is in the passenger footwell and my RRC leaks water in on top of it. If it looks corroded or wet give me a PM

SpudH said:

Whats a 'cold' spark?

BTW its worth checking to make sure you don't have an immobiliser fault. The Alarm ecu is in the passenger footwell and my RRC leaks water in on top of it. If it looks corroded or wet give me a PM

Click to expand...

"Cold spark" is what you get when there's insufficient voltage from the coil. It does arc over, so it's easy to be fooled, but it's more yellow than blue and not hot enough to ignite the mixture. It's often the result of a bad coil or "leaky" HT leads.

Henrik

Henrik97 said:

"Cold spark" is what you get when there's insufficient voltage from the coil. It does arc over, so it's easy to be fooled, but it's more yellow than blue and not hot enough to ignite the mixture. It's often the result of a bad coil or "leaky" HT leads.

Henrik

Click to expand...

Thanks for that Henrik, i too am suffering from an intermittent starting RRC 3.9 and have spark but don't like the look of it, it moves around the spark plug and looks weak. I've just received a new coil so hopefully fitting this will improve matters.

Cormac

Well its with the specialist at the moment, hopefully they can sort it.

Any news as my mates v8 has failed to start this morning. Has a spark according to him and stinks of fuel but doesnt run.
Im going up after ive eaten some food to have a look see if i can fux it.

It's always worth trying tipping a bit of fuel down each plug hole, whizz the engine over with the coil disconnected, then replace the plugs and try to start. If the engine does not at least fire under those conditions, then the problem must be valve timing or ignition. I would bet on ignition.

my range rover was working perfect this morning filled it up with fuel called my friends house stayed there for about a hour started the range rover drove a mile up the road and it just cut out rac have come out and he said these old g reg range rovers had problems with compression in the fuel tank he told me to buy new fuel pump this i did put it on still does not work is there anyone who could help me please i have only had it 6months please please help

I don't quite understand how a new fuel pump would have helped solve this problem, I have heard of tanks having blocked vents, which can cause fuel starvation, but a new pump would not help this condition!
Have you checked the basics, like removing a plug, cranking the engine over and checking that you are getting a nice blue spark?