200TDi starting problem - not battery or starter.

trax · Feb 28, 2015

biggun1 said:
With the brand new 019 battery in it is exactly the same. Cranks slowly for the first couple of revolutions, you release the key then have another go and it spins quickly and fires. Guess I'm going to have to buy another starter and send this one back for a warranty claim - what do you think the chances are of me actually getting any money back....

:/

depends on who you bought it from

you've tried everything else, so it does seem you got unlucky.

another thought, have you tried turning the crank by hand with a socket and bar? just to make sure it isn't really hard to turn over for some reason.

Blackburn · Feb 28, 2015

Going to try mine with an alternative supply to solenoid on starter motor.
Have been thinking about when this started and remembered it started after I had been working behind dash.
Will take a look when the sun next shines in case have bad connection on ignition switch.
Have also ordered some relays as I am toying with a relay supply for solenoid same as when fitted in Discovery.

freelance · Feb 28, 2015

Could be your isolator switch not transmitting the power( probably dirty contacts) trying for a few seconds creates enough heat for them to transmit full amps next time, can test by bridging terminals, jump lead whatever is in your reach .

lynall · Feb 28, 2015

freelance said:
Could be your isolator switch not transmitting the power( probably dirty contacts) trying for a few seconds creates enough heat for them to transmit full amps next time, can test by bridging terminals, jump lead whatever is in your reach .

Op has already tried that

Blackburn · Mar 1, 2015

Checked connections on ignition switch and tried starter motor by shorting brown to red white and seemed to spin a lot better so fitted a relay to operate solenoid today behind dash using a supply from battery that also feeds my glow plugs, seems to start better will monitor for awhile.

trax · Mar 1, 2015

Blackburn said:
Checked connections on ignition switch and tried starter motor by shorting brown to red white and seemed to spin a lot better so fitted a relay to operate solenoid today behind dash using a supply from battery that also feeds my glow plugs, seems to start better will monitor for awhile.

think that's in your mind mate.

way it works is 12v energises a magnet in the solenoid which does 2 things. one is to flick the cog out to the flywheel and the other is to bridge the 2 big studs to allow power to flow to the starter. the lil wire doesn't supply any power to actually spin the starter.

if the starter span, then it was doing its job and more juice wouldn't make a diff to the starter.

starter is fairly demanding and needs good connections, good leads, good bat terms and a good battery. as well as needing the starter to be in good shape

i'd go and check your earth straps to the engine and gearbox to chassis and battery, the eye terminals on the straps. should be nice and tight. the bolt mounts. they should be nice and clean with no rust, the battery clamps, should be clean (sandpaper them) and tight on the cables and the battery terms.

but you can do a quick test using jump leads. neg to starter housing/engine block and pos from battery to starter pole.

Blackburn · Mar 1, 2015

Solenoid also needs good supply to keep the contacts of starter motor well made to prevent them arcing .If poor supply voltage to start with when battery voltage drops due to load of starter motor the solenoid coil will have less current flowing through it and thus less magnetic flux to do its duty.
Will know in a few days if it has cured my problem of poor voltage at start.
Only took an hour to do and will take less to remove.

trax · Mar 1, 2015

Blackburn said:
Solenoid also needs good supply to keep the contacts of starter motor well made to prevent them arcing .If poor supply voltage to start with when battery voltage drops due to load of starter motor the solenoid coil will have less current flowing through it and thus less magnetic flux to do its duty.
Will know in a few days if it has cured my problem of poor voltage at start.
Only took an hour to do and will take less to remove.

not convinced with that theory, but hopefully it has fixed it

lynall · Mar 1, 2015

Agree with Trax if solenoid supply was poor it would machine gun.
Ive had some proper ropey corroded solenoid lucar terminal contacts and when they played up a wiggle was enough to get it going again and a wiggle is only going to provide the poorest of clean contacts.

biggun1 · Mar 2, 2015

Another morning and another test - I'm pretty sure it's a failing starter motor.

I did turn the motor over with a bar on the crank and it didn't seem overly tight, starter motor struggled for a few turns then after a breather it spun over much quicker and started. Tried turning the engine over again and it felt pretty much the same.
So I'm off to do battle with the factors!

Blackburn · Mar 20, 2015

Biggun Did you get sorted out ?
Had an embarrassing failure to start when out with a landrover group laning couple of weeks ago when engine was hot.
I have removed my battery disconnect that I had fitted and seems to be working great at present although its now a little warmer.

lynall · Mar 20, 2015

I reckon you should look at the starter, new one not dear and a spare is always handy especially if you do deep mud/water as they are not waterproof!

Blackburn · Mar 21, 2015

my starter is only two years old.

lynall · Mar 21, 2015

Still suspect it, like I said above have you off roaded it at all?

Blackburn · Mar 22, 2015

The odd splash when going through puddles but never been submerged.
This was the one I bought looks capable of taking the odd splash.
DISCOVERY 1 200TDi STARTER MOTOR NAD500210 | eBay

trax · Mar 22, 2015

Blackburn said:
The odd splash when going through puddles but never been submerged.
This was the one I bought looks capable of taking the odd splash.
DISCOVERY 1 200TDi STARTER MOTOR NAD500210 | eBay

"premium after market" so could be britpart, allmakes or bearmach.. ie crappy starter.

lynall · Mar 22, 2015

Looks exactly like the britpart one I fitted to mine, fine for every day use, BUT when it started to play up after getting it very wet and muddy I removed and stripped it, oh dear very poor quality build in fact almost appalling and full of muddy water!, but being a tight arse it got cleaned and greased and refitted and still works okay.
With any land rover part if they cant say who made it assume its a cheapy.
Premium weirdly can mean both ends of the market.

Blackburn · Mar 23, 2015

Looks can be deceiving if I recall correctly its actually Bosch.

trax · Mar 23, 2015

Blackburn said:
Looks can be deceiving if I recall correctly its actually Bosch.

for that price?.. and they tell you what they mean by premium.. bosch is oem.

sounds like b*llocks to me.

lynall · Mar 23, 2015

No way is that Bosch.
I would buy a new one and fit it, then sell your old one.

200TDi starting problem - not battery or starter.

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