200tdi or td5

Ttwo · Jun 23, 2015

Right ppl...iv got a 200tdi and my cuz has got a td5... And his flys..mine has got wider wheels but just seems to have no power against his...is there a reason for this other than his is the newer engine and mines an antique?? His jumps off the line while mine crawls pretty much...I am tempted to get a td5 but iv been told keeping the 200 is the right thing and better option...what's yours views??

Brown · Jun 23, 2015

Depends what you want. Some people on here say the 200 is the best engine Land Rover ever made. Whilst the TD5 is faster and tunable, you're not completely out of options when it comes to tuning the 200 TDi. There's a lot of fiddling with pumps and bigger intercoolers gong on, which can introduce some performance improvements. But if you do a lot of offroad work then a steady diesel chugger can be a lot more use than a fancy performer with loads of electronic engine management.

Ttwo · Jun 23, 2015

Thanks for your opinion I got it just for off-roading but I do potter around in it...iv only been proper of roading once and I know nothing about it...I thought you just need POWER to blast everywhere and fly up hill etc not slowly chug up them...I seen a couple of vids where there having to go fast up wet mid hills and I just don't think I could do that in mine I get to about 50-55mph in 5th gear on the road haha

Discokids · Jun 23, 2015

Depends on your idea of 'off roading', sounds like you are going on YouTube watching videos of tw4ts in shagged discos tearing up the local woods and spraying mud as far and high as possible, setting a bad example. If you were spotted green Laning in this manner then you would get a lot of grief off anybody that saw you.

FMog · Jun 23, 2015

Ttwo said:
Thanks for your opinion I got it just for off-roading but I do potter around in it...iv only been proper of roading once and I know nothing about it...I thought you just need POWER to blast everywhere and fly up hill etc not slowly chug up them...I seen a couple of vids where there having to go fast up wet mid hills and I just don't think I could do that in mine I get to about 50-55mph in 5th gear on the road haha

As Brown said, difference between 200tdi and TD5 is that the 200tdi reacts really well to mechanical tuning, whereas the TD5 benefits from ECU tuning.

If you're struggling to get 55mph in 5th gear on the motorway or wherever though, something definitely isn't right. My 200tdi would happily power up to 70 and beyond without any trouble (although I tend to potter around at 55-60 to save on fuel and wear), and even slower on back roads around where I live (30-40 in most areas), even while going up a 15-20% gradient I can still power up no trouble, and it hasn't had any tuning at all.

Do you get much smoke when accelerating? How does your turbo sound? What is the economy like for you?

And on a final note for this message, I pretty much concur with Discokids, keep it slow and sensible if you do go Green Laning, otherwise the lanes will just end up getting shut down

Ttwo · Jun 23, 2015

The YouTube vids I seen are devils pit where there there having to use power to get through really wet up hill climbs..I have no smoke putting the power down I did wonder if my gear box was changed at some point as it was used in winch challenge cups by the prior +2 owner...I do find tho going up hills on the road I do have to change down a gear and I end up being that ford transit reving loads hahahah... But tbh me wheels are 33x15.5x16 there from USA so there sizes are all ####ed up but anyway the back two were 9psi and after pumping them to 26psi has made it feel faster...but I didn't know what psi to put in so just stopped there as it took ages and I thought I'd save blowing the tyre up in my ear for another night &#55357;&#56876;

FMog · Jun 23, 2015

Ttwo said:
The YouTube vids I seen are devils pit where there there having to use power to get through really wet up hill climbs..I have no smoke putting the power down I did wonder if my gear box was changed at some point as it was used in winch challenge cups by the prior +2 owner...I do find tho going up hills on the road I do have to change down a gear and I end up being that ford transit reving loads hahahah... But tbh me wheels are 33x15.5x16 there from USA so there sizes are all ####ed up but anyway the back two were 9psi and after pumping them to 26psi has made it feel faster...but I didn't know what psi to put in so just stopped there as it took ages and I thought I'd save blowing the tyre up in my ear for another night &#55357;&#56876;

It's feasible that the gearing has been altered by one of the previous owners, certainly isn't unusual. The 200tdi was originally geared for agricultural use and that naturally doesn't suit everyone

Regarding your tyres, unless you really have a need for big chunky tyres like that, sell them on ebay and pick yourself up some second-hand Disco tyres, you can get a set for really cheap, you could actually keep your chunky US ones for offroading, and the Disco ones for general running and light offroading. Also your MPG will skyrocket on a set of normal tyres

It might be possible to slightly crank up your fuel pump for a bit of extra oomph, just be aware that it will put extra strain on your engine and other components, might be best to get an experienced landrover tuner to look into this for you (may already have been notched up slightly).

As far as hills go, needing to drop a gear isn't uncommon, there are two passes near me (Hardknotts and Wrynose), they are notoriously steep (33+%) and windy, but the Defender will happily chug up them in second at a decent speed.

lynall · Jun 24, 2015

Dont forget the off road vids will be with the car in low range and they will pull max revs in every gear with no effort at all, std or tuned.
200 good old tech engine and damned tough, bits cheap as chips, td5 also good can be fussy, bits way more expensive than chips, cyl head very very expensive.
For a toy 200 every time, everyday car td5 will be better all rounder, especially when you need some power coming out of junctions etc.

Ttwo · Jun 24, 2015

Ok thanks guys I think I'll take it to my local specialist to see what they say but the reason I wanted this one for starters because I wanted a car with bk ecu and I can get the book and do thinks to it myself without a laptop

300bhp/ton · Jun 24, 2015

I think you need to find out more about your own vehicle first.

The Tdi's are good engines, even in stock trim they should be more than fine for almost any off road situation in a 90, even challenge use or extreme trials. They should also run to 70-80mph with stock gearing. Even on those big tyres, stock gearing and a stock Tdi should still be sufficient, although not as peppy.

Tuning a Tdi is also easy. However dynamically the Td5 is a better engine than the Tdi on any measurable metric. And the Td5 is faster stock for stock and when tuned.

Ttwo · Jun 24, 2015

It just seems to bog abit up hills and in 5th it will pick up slowly but I don't want to go to fast to see as the tyres mate the steering shake a little bit...there rated 1* out of 5 for road use

Disco1BFG · Jun 24, 2015

I have had expensive experience with electronic "stuff", ( I am being polite), and moaned about it at some length on here and elsewhere.

IMHO, stay away from ECU's - great when new and in warranty, and then SH**.

Both the 200 and 300 TDi are very good, very tunable units which left the LR factory in a very low state of tune. They can be dragged into the 21st century with all manner of goodies like variable geometry turbos and super full width intercoolers. It is not cheap to do this, but, IMHO it is worth it - mpg and driveability increase enormously.

I agree with FMog too - change your wheels for something standard, or at least nearer standard.

300bhp/ton · Jun 24, 2015

Disco1BFG said:
I have had expensive experience with electronic "stuff", ( I am being polite), and moaned about it at some length on here and elsewhere.

IMHO, stay away from ECU's - great when new and in warranty, and then SH**.

Unless you still think Victoria is Queen, then that is quite a narrow minded and daft view of the world.

Cars have been using ECU's for 30'ish years. And no new car doesn't have one.

Disco1BFG said:
Both the 200 and 300 TDi are very good, very tunable units which left the LR factory in a very low state of tune. They can be dragged into the 21st century with all manner of goodies like variable geometry turbos and super full width intercoolers.

HUGE HUGE money to do it all. But will still be a million miles from 21st Century power and performance. This comes from someone who currently owns two Tdi's and one fairly heavily tuned.

Big improvements over stock yes, but not even close to modern units.

Disco1BFG said:
It is not cheap to do this, but, IMHO it is worth it - mpg and driveability increase enormously.

MPG, nope. Sure if you drive it gently, then you'll see minor gains, but not "enormous" gains. But if you drive it hard and make use of the extra performance you'll also use more fuel.

mikescuba · Jun 24, 2015

I have never driven a td5 so can't compare. I have a 200 tdi, 110. which is a box standard ex-military. Standard Transfer box. I have fitted a Salisbury axle on the front, bent the old one. Mine will cruise at 70 mph all day and night. I have had it up to over 80 mph on occasions. I recently had the cam belt changed and new tensioners fitted and I have noticed a bit of an improvement in performance. I find I have all the power I need when off roading or crossing Morocco. No problem keeping up with the rest of the pack. I love my 200 tdi. As mentioned above somewhere, parts are cheap as chips. It's a good old lump that just keeps going even in soft sand. see clip:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ6wssG7VBw&index=1&list=PLO_LbOkMtqoZcBe0Uo6yfblkZ8Wjz0uKJ
In the above clip the 110 is in high ratio. Went into low for a bit towards the end when I got stuck
If you can't get more than 55 mph in yours then I would say something is definitely wrong.

Ttwo · Jun 24, 2015

Iv called up my local and iv got to give them a call back tue to speak to the guy who works on the defenders I think I will book it in and get them to have a look over it as there is oil dripping out the trans box aswell iv noticed so i might aswell get these guys todo it all and I know it's done right and I'll just do smaller jobs myself to start with

mikescuba · Jun 24, 2015

Ttwo said:
Iv called up my local and iv got to give them a call back tue to speak to the guy who works on the defenders I think I will book it in and get them to have a look over it as there is oil dripping out the trans box aswell iv noticed so i might aswell get these guys todo it all and I know it's done right and I'll just do smaller jobs myself to start with

One of the guys on our last Morocco trip broke a diff and shaft. He had a secondhand one fitted out there which seemed to completely mess up his gearing. He couldn't do more than 55 mph. That was in a Defender 90, 300 tdi.

lynall · Jun 24, 2015

Old engines even tuned to give the same power as a modern one will still get creamed by the newer machine every time, not forgetting that the newer machinery can also be tuned.

Ttwo · Jun 24, 2015

I think I'm just used to my faster other car...after noticing the oil spray around the shaft where it goes into the trans box there is a nasty squeek and it feels like someone has thrown a stone in the drive train as it's knocking now and really feeling like a shaft is about to fall out....had my first off roading trip at the local 4x4 quary on Sunday so I won't be going now as I have to wait till tue so I can take it to the garage

Ttwo · Jun 24, 2015

Iv just put a pic of it in my album on my page if anyone wanted to see what iv got

FMog · Jun 24, 2015

Looks like a fun little 90

What is the service history like? And what is the mileage on it?

I'm looking forward to hearing what the garage comes back to you with

Has it got axle breathers and whatnot btw?

200tdi or td5

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