2004 4.4 V8 petrol 115k - Is my engine dead?

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Fergie46 said:
Well, just wondering if it was a reciprocating mass type noise ie crank/big end but these issues don't arise suddenly. Could be timing chain lash at certain revs on over run.

I think you've got the right idea with your investigative dismantling - always do the cheapest thing first. I am not over familiar with this engine - does the viscous fan bolt onto the water pump - if so try and see if the fan has any play in it eg stand in front of the car and try to push it backwards and forwards. Spin it also and see if there is any roughness. Viscous couplings can and do fail. Any fore and aft play could be the water pump bearings.

We've all been in your sitch at sometime or other - wish you well, keep us posted.

Literally:)
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my initial fear was a major engine bearing and then reading the posts all over the net i too thought about the chain vibrating as the revs slowed down to a certain pitch which would still make sense more than the water pump as i would think that would get worse with revs.

when i revved it today it did seem to sound better at the higher revs which again might not be in my favour but will see what gives as i start to dismantle and adjust fire from there. there is a definite noise from the pump area but behind that is the central chain guide - hopefully its still there.

The pump pulley drives the viscous fan and i did try and give it some movement but nothing moved but this may be the belt holding it all together which is why i should have loosened it today but bottled it. i'll have all the gear ready to repair it if it is the pump and if not i can rethink the best way forward.

thank you for your comments, i was going nuts last night until i posted and started getting help straight away, a problem shared is a problem you can possibly get somebody else to sort out for you:)

i have been in a stitch before, have a look at my post about my leak from my transmission or my suspension fail on my way home from buying it, or my....... , this is easy in comparison, hopefully
 
I've read your posts and hopefully this will end up an easy fix for you. As the viscous fan spins faster it 'may' be trying to centre itself hence the noise subsiding a little. I know the chain guides can go west, but if you can remove the load the tensioned belt is placing in the ancillaries - don't forget you have two belts and each has a tensioner - then in about an hour you'll be able to discount them or point out the culprit. The idler I spoke of just ground itself and I couldn't identify it with the belt in place, once off it was doing a samba on the bolt.
Good luck, hope it works out a simple fix.
 
Thanks to you both, i am hoping for that too, i would like to get in and really future proof this engine if i can but i really don't want to do it just yet with christmas around the corner but if i need to i will make sure its documented on here whatever happens.

Removing the belt will now be playing on my mind constantly until i take it off and find out so it might be sooner rather than later.

if my next post is at 4 AM tomorrow then it got the better of me:)

Thanks for everyone's input so far

Andy
 
holidaychicken said:
Hi Charlie,
what's the situation with your car then, are you still using it or is it parked up while you decide what to do?
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No problem re the tools, I've used the viscous fan tool many times so buying your own pays dividends.

My car is fine at the moment - I'm still pretty paranoid. The insane method of judging the gearbox oil makes you wonder if you've got it right and once you've had cooling issues any drip I see causes me to have a 1000 yard stare.

Charlie
 
charliedurrant said:
No problem re the tools, I've used the viscous fan tool many times so buying your own pays dividends.

My car is fine at the moment - I'm still pretty paranoid. The insane method of judging the gearbox oil makes you wonder if you've got it right and once you've had cooling issues any drip I see causes me to have a 1000 yard stare.

Charlie
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i have that stare pretty much whenever i drive mine, saint or bemble are the men to talk to about your gearbox oil change generally,saint has a how to i think. land rover says its sealed for life but i am guessing they didnt expect them to live so long and we would all be driving brand new ones now.

cheers
Andy
 
tomcat59alan said:
But if you whip the belt off and the noise goes on start up you will know it's one of your auxiliaries. See if the water pump is noisy when turned by hand, same for the tensioner, idler and alternator
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YOU REST MY CASE !!

I didn't start it as i couldn't get the belt completely out of the way and didn't want it to grab hold of anything, but i think the video at the link below is fairly conclusive as to what the problem is, i never thought i would be so pleased to see a knackered bearing :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx2qtNayIx4

i am getting a hella pump from island 4x4 and will fit it this weekend hopefully, Tune in next week
Thank you all again
 
holidaychicken said:
YOU REST MY CASE !!

I didn't start it as i couldn't get the belt completely out of the way and didn't want it to grab hold of anything, but i think the video at the link below is fairly conclusive as to what the problem is, i never thought i would be so pleased to see a knackered bearing :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx2qtNayIx4

i am getting a hella pump from island 4x4 and will fit it this weekend hopefully, Tune in next week
Thank you all again
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Yeah, that's fecked!!

Good find, simple job, the lowest bolt on the pump is a pig to get at as it is hidden underneath the pump and behind the crank pulley....so take yer time on that one!
 
cheers guys, now i think i have made a double school boy error..:eek:

in my haste to remove the belt i should have given the viscous fan nut a tap to loosen it as we removed it last year so i was hoping in would be easy to undo with just the tension from the belt but i didn't and i cant get the belt back on.

That wouldn't be a problem as i have ordered a tool off ebay which i have linked below but i dont think it will do as i have noticed that the one you (Ant) made is offset 5.5 mm as the BMW pulley is different to the L322.

i also looked at the genuine tool which again has the 5 mm offset and i can see my bolts are flush with the outer face of the pulley.

Charlie, is your tool like the one linked or do you have an offset one?

BMW Water Pump Pulley Hub Clutch Fan Holding Tool & 32mm / 36mm Spanner KIT | eBay
 
holidaychicken said:
Charlie, is your tool like the one linked or do you have an offset one?
BMW Water Pump Pulley Hub Clutch Fan Holding Tool & 32mm / 36mm Spanner KIT | eBay
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Here's mine (images source from rangerovers.net)

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attachment.php

I didn't have much luck bashing mine so had to get the tool..

Charlie
 

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holidaychicken said:
cheers guys, now i think i have made a double school boy error..:eek:

in my haste to remove the belt i should have given the viscous fan nut a tap to loosen it as we removed it last year so i was hoping in would be easy to undo with just the tension from the belt but i didn't and i cant get the belt back on.

That wouldn't be a problem as i have ordered a tool off ebay which i have linked below but i dont think it will do as i have noticed that the one you (Ant) made is offset 5.5 mm as the BMW pulley is different to the L322.

i also looked at the genuine tool which again has the 5 mm offset and i can see my bolts are flush with the outer face of the pulley.

Charlie, is your tool like the one linked or do you have an offset one?

BMW Water Pump Pulley Hub Clutch Fan Holding Tool & 32mm / 36mm Spanner KIT | eBay
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The Pulley is dished and bolts sit recessed slightly into this dish, hence when I made mine I welded two nuts to it so they would sit into the recess...

it may be possible to get your tool onto the heads as they do sit ever so slightly proud of the pulley, but not by much.

On holiday when I had to change my VC unit, all I had was a Viscous spanner bought from Halfords and a set of ring/combination spanners also bought that day for emergency repair!

I managed to get an 11mm spanner on one of the pulley bolts, rotate it round so the shaft of the spanner was resting on the VC nut, then with another spanner wedged over the open jaw of the 11mm spanner for leverage....I could undo the VC nut using the VC spanner and using the 11mm and A N Other spanner as the lever to hold the pulley in place, can be done!

IMG_0475.jpg


Spanner.jpg
 
hippo- yes very loose without the belt on, i may be able to get the belt back on which might help

Charlie -that's the genuine tool , if your offer still stands to borrow it :eek:, i may take you up on that but wouldn't expect you to go out of your way i would drive down to you, but i'll see what i can do this end first but i'm away for work for a few days

Ant - i took a copy of your tool, that sounds dodgy, into my garage, that doesn't sound much better, to see what i could fashion, but i have thought for a long time that i should get a mig welder but so far have failed to do so, hopefully its quite loose as it was off last year with that little transmission project you helped me on, you can tell my mate Jason was the brains of the outfit

cheers guys
 
Saint.V8 said:
Now thats rather neat.....good luck bud
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cheers Ant, well it took longer than i hoped, there a few frustrating moments along the way. i followed your how to and all good apart from i wish i had a 10 mm ratchet spanner for the little sod behind the pulley. even putting the fan back on after it was all back together involved some swearing to get it started.

i also removed the ancillary belt tensioner to give me better access to the bolt behind the pulley which helped

i also broke the gasket, only behind one of the bolt holes, but hoping i have got away with it as i put the pump on and off so many times trying to get the coolant tubes to locate as well as the dowels while not dislodging the gasket, even with the high temp gasket paste it still moved but hoping it is all sealed.

my only issue, i have posted on one of charlies threads with the same issue, is the temp gauge pauses for a second at the correct temp and then shoots off the end past maximum ??:confused:
 
Wish I could report the same, but I spent another day waiting for the postie to bring my stat. I guess I could change the pump, but I don't wont to leave the old bus undriveable whe I wait for it. Sounds like you have dead short on your temp sender to me.
 
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