Freelander 1 2003 td4 very difficult to start

GrumpyGel · Jul 30, 2021

If injectors were leaking, would this show as a lot of smoke when it eventually fires? Although I suppose if its turning over for a while, there's bound to be smoke from unburnt fuel.

Is the TD4 an engine that uses 1 timing sensor (eg cam) for starting and another (eg crank) for running? If so, it might indicate the prior is faulty. Just a thought.

Alteredtech · Jul 30, 2021

Hi,

If you have a starting issue, I call that a big issue, so it needs to be seriously investigated.
You can't guess what part is in cause, it could be anything, you need to investigate it on the vehicule.

Could tell little informations about your TD4, age, milles.
Did you changed the low pressure pump ? I am sure it was not indispensensable like the glow plugs.

Haynes manual recommend to check ( if the engine rotate when you trying to start )
the fuel injection system
the preheating system
air in the fuel line

Alteredtech · Jul 30, 2021

GrumpyGel said:
If injectors were leaking, would this show as a lot of smoke when it eventually fires? Although I suppose if its turning over for a while, there's bound to be smoke from unburnt fuel.

Is the TD4 an engine that uses 1 timing sensor (eg cam) for starting and another (eg crank) for running? If so, it might indicate the prior is faulty. Just a thought.

The freelander td4 can't even run with a bad crank sensor.
The cam sensor could prevent the td4 to start, but it cost too much for a sensor, and losing more than 100 euros just to try ...

GrumpyGel · Jul 30, 2021

Alteredtech said:
The freelander td4 can't even run with a bad crank sensor.
The cam sensor could prevent the td4 to start, but it cost too much for a sensor, and losing more than 100 euros just to try ...

The engine runs well once started, so from what you say, the crank sensor is good.

From what you say though, giving the wiring connector a clean up and inspection of the wiring would be worth doing and doesn't cost

You would think a fault code would be thrown if there were problems with the cam sensor, but what ever the fault is, you'd think a code would be thrown so got to be worth a try.

hd3 · Jul 30, 2021

try ..
removing the cam sensor and putting in the fridge for a while
then refit it 'n try for an engine start ..
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the cam sensor can go faulty when hot ..

[ link ]
Search Results for Query: td4 cam sensor fault

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ponythegringo · Jul 30, 2021

hd3 said:
try ..
removing the cam sensor and putting in the fridge for a while
then refit it 'n try for an engine start ..
```````````````````````````````````
the cam sensor can go faulty when hot ..

[ link ]
Search Results for Query: td4 cam sensor fault

```````````````````````````````````````````

ok thanks for the suggestion , took it off cleaned the oil off of it and cleaned the connectors with iso alcohol and put in freezer for 3 minutes , re-installed and no start same as befor no matter how long i leave it cranking. worth a try for sure

hd3 · Jul 30, 2021

.. and put in freezer for 3 minutes , re-installed and no start same as before

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from :
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/75-zt-td4-fault-diagnosis.203935/

" Engine has been running fine until stopped .. then won't restart .. or .. only restarts when cold : ..

Most likely due to either the cam sensor or injector leakback.
Try cooling the cam sensor with some frozen food ( its the one near the oilfiller cap).
Check for leakback - its quite common on older or high mileage vehicles and injector flow & leakback test kits are widely available from Laser & Draper, though not essential. If the engine starts when towed, then its almost certainly injector leak-back. "

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edit .. to add :
freelander 1 td4 diy leak back test .. [ yootoob search link ]
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hd3 · Jul 30, 2021

your crank h.p. was 11258kpa .. going by the posted vid ..

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mmm .. this site states : [ https://blackbox-solutions.com/help/SM036.html .. BOSCH DDE4 TD4 ] .. the ecu ..

'' High pressure rail (KPa): This shows the fuel pressure measured by the ECU on the high pressure side of the system using the fuel rail pressure sensor. Normal values at idle speed are around 30000KPa and while cranking 20500KPa. A value of 15000KPa denotes that the sensor is open circuit. "

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theory ..
injector leak back causes drop in rail pressure at cranking rpm .. ecu sais 'no-start'
[ n throws the P1190 Fuel rail pressure plausability code ]
crank rpm increase with easy-start .. or tow ..
rail pressure builds to where the ecu gives permission to fire up the injectors
`````````````````````````````````````

Dbest43 · Jul 30, 2021

I had a problem starting and I changed the low pressure sensor and disconnected the map sensor and it starts fine and runs like a racing car

Alteredtech · Jul 31, 2021

Dbest43 said:
I had a problem starting and I changed the low pressure sensor and disconnected the map sensor and it starts fine and runs like a racing car

The map sensor won’t prevent the car to start. If it gives good readings it’s still good.

The low pressure sensor ?

ponythegringo · Jul 31, 2021

just purchased a leak back test kit online , my lend of a lift for the day did not happen so I will jack it up and have a look at the high pressure fuel pump see if i can spot any leak.
Codes came back again yesterday fuel rail pressure plausability P1190 and fuel rail pressure sensor P0190.
On a related note , I was talking to my lorry driving uncle about easy start and he said he saw someone using a small sort of hand pump thingy that would help start an engine but he couldn't remember the details of how it worked . Has anyone here heard of that ? If it exists I'd prefer using that .
Also any recomendations for places to get the injectors , best I found so far was this site https://www.pfjones.co.uk/diesel-fu...d-rover-freelander-diesel-fuel-injectors.html

hd3 · Jul 31, 2021

ponythegringo said:
.. and have a look at the high pressure fuel pump see if i can spot any leak.

also .. monitor the dipstick oil level ..
as the hp.pump has been known to leak into the sump without any external leaks showing

`````````

also .. keep in mind ..
the ecu will log a fault code if the battery is connected
e.g. engine shut down .. no key in ignition
one removes a sensor plug ..
ecu will log an 'open circuit' code for that sensor
[ at least .. mine does ]

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ponythegringo · Jul 31, 2021

hd3 said:
also .. monitor the dipstick oil level ..
as the hp.pump has been known to leak into the sump without any external leaks showing

`````````

Thanks , will do

hd3 · Jul 31, 2021

ponythegringo said:

i put forward .. that .. if the engine performs well once started
it's unlikely to be the hp.pump leaking ..
```````````````````````````````
i had a leaking hp.pump
engine simply died .. mid a busy main road junction ..
[ dripping diesel under the hp.pump made it obvious as to the cause ]
5 min before that .. it cut out while i was waiting at a red light
i just about managed to restart it ..
`````````````````````````````````````````````
as for possibly needing to replace an injector
it's not too hard ..
spraying loads of wd40 around the injector base .. over a few days ..
can make removal much easier ..
a warm engine helps as well
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[edit to add ]
re injector replacement ..
i found the vid. posted here quite useful ..
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-ro...h-speed-p1195-code.362488/page-3#post-4957152
[ i'd never attempted injector replacement before ]
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`s`

Alteredtech · Jul 31, 2021

hd3 said:
i put forward .. that .. if the engine performs well once started
it's unlikely to be the hp.pump leaking ..
```````````````````````````````
i had a leaking hp.pump
engine simply died .. mid a busy main road junction ..
[ dripping diesel under the hp.pump made it obvious as to the cause ]
5 min before that .. it cut out while i was waiting at a red light
i just about managed to restart it ..
`````````````````````````````````````````````
as for possibly needing to replace an injector
it's not too hard ..
spraying loads of wd40 around the injector base .. over a few days ..
can make removal much easier ..
a warm engine helps as well
```````````````````````````````
[edit to add ]
re injector replacement ..
i found the vid. posted here quite useful ..
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-ro...h-speed-p1195-code.362488/page-3#post-4957152
[ i'd never attempted injector replacement before ]
```````````````````````````````````````````````
`s`

My hp pump was leaking only when starting, it was a very small leak, very long to start. It was leaking from the pump cover … Once started it run fine.

On forums many start by changing injectors, sometimes it doesn’t solve the problem. So after spending a lot on refubished injectors, the question that comes after, is if the new injectors are good or bad … and the problem is still not solved.

hd3 · Jul 31, 2021

Alteredtech said:
My hp pump was leaking only when starting, it was a very small leak, very long to start. It was leaking from the pump cover … Once started it run fine.

oh ;-[ .. that debunks my theory then ..
good info to include

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Alteredtech said:
On forums many start by changing injectors, sometimes it doesn’t solve the problem. So after spending a lot on refubished injectors, the question that comes after, is if the new injectors are good or bad … and the problem is still not solved.

been chasing a similar issue myself ..
i only chose to replace my previous injectors due to their high mileage ..
it helped .. but didn't solve the issue ;-/
[ and that's despite having a hawkeye obd scanner ]
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`s`

ponythegringo · Jul 31, 2021

Going by the data on the icarsoft could the FPR be faulty? Should I just be replacing the cam sensor and the FPR before anything else?

ponythegringo · Jul 31, 2021

ok so was having a look at the pump just after coming home from a 20k drive and just with the key turned to on but not started and looked for leaks , heard a noise that doesn't sound right to me so i recorded the sound a couple of ways to post here .
Does this sound like it's leaking?

https://sndup.net/5fh2

hd3 · Jul 31, 2021

https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-ro...-with-escaping-air-noise.358288/#post-4830015
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" A hissing sound from the HP pump is quite normal. It's the sound of the fuel being pumped through the HP pump body, before it's returned to the tank. The fuel is moving very fast at good pressure, so it makes a noise as it surges through the pump."

Nodge68 · Jul 31, 2021

ponythegringo said:
and put in freezer for 3 minutes , re-installed and no start same as befor no matter how long i leave it cranking

You need to leave it in the freezer overnight, not 3 minutes.

Although as it starts with easy start, that discounts the cam sensor.

Freelander 1 2003 td4 very difficult to start

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