200 tdi Engine checking / refurb??

steve2286w · Jun 11, 2019

I got this engine off eBey nearly five years ago, the lad I got it off removed it from a 95 discovery EST 115k miles , no knocks or smoke

I took the head off at the weekend to remove a snapped heater plug, there is no wear ridge at top of any cylinder , however there is a vertical scratch on no 4 , I can feel with fingernail.
I have not measured bores yet. You can see some honing marks on bores
The markings on pistons indicate std pistons TX ERR 1387 STD
I’m unsure if the engine has been refurbed before by previous owners

So questions
If you have stripped one before Do the fitted pistons with those markings look original Land Rover
Would you feel reasonably ok running it with scratch like that
Would the honing marks still be visible from 1995
Would scratch hone out if diameter allows, otherwise rebore one pot?
What should I look for that would help prove it has not been refurbed previously
I’m feeling I need to strip it down a bit to check bores and clean and reassemble at the minimum
With clean and regrind valves
I have prepped the bellhousing for series 3 and did a timing belt change. A year ago

Cheers
Steve

dieseldog69 · Jun 11, 2019

If you are looking for ultimate long term longevity then consider getting it machined +40thou and get new pistons and rings, then it's 100% gone, with it being a vertical score like that I would say that you'll get two things, excessive blow-by and excessive oil consumption.

Yes the hone marks are very good indication of general health as the more wear on the bores the less visible they are as they are effectively worn away.

Very good to see another rebuild on the go.

300bhp/ton · Jun 11, 2019

It’s all about time effort and ability. I’d probably just chuck it in and see how it ran. No point fixing it if it ain’t broke.

Plus it’s pretty easy to access the engine when in situ should you decide/need to do anything to it.

However if you have the time and money. Then have it

lynall · Jun 13, 2019

Think std means standard

200 was replaced by 300tdi in late 1993

I would lightly hone them bores, new rings and check the big end and mains shell bearings and er thats it

jamesmartin · Jun 13, 2019

its original, id fit a new gasket and check crank bearings

steve2286w · Jun 13, 2019

300bhp/ton said:
No point fixing it if it ain’t broke.

That’s what I was thinking, but I’ve probably got some crap in the bores already just cleaning a bit of piston tops ,
So I want to get pistons out to clean and check , borrowed some kit to measure bores
Lynall - yes wondering about honing bores, but original honing marks still there so I don’t want to make them worse by getting the wrong angle, I’ll check rings first when in pistons for probs and go from there
James - that’s a good answer I was hoping it was original , I will check the mains - is It ok just remove caps and check 1/2 bearing as an indication. Don’t really want to remove crank as rear crank seal done and timing belt done.

It’s prob last bit I will look at but, For the head is there a way to check for dodgy valve stem oil seals on the bench, I know some are cheap but don’t want to remove decent original parts if not worn

lynall · Jun 14, 2019

steve2286w said:
That’s what I was thinking, but I’ve probably got some crap in the bores already just cleaning a bit of piston tops ,
So I want to get pistons out to clean and check , borrowed some kit to measure bores
Lynall - yes wondering about honing bores, but original honing marks still there so I don’t want to make them worse by getting the wrong angle, I’ll check rings first when in pistons for probs and go from there
James - that’s a good answer I was hoping it was original , I will check the mains - is It ok just remove caps and check 1/2 bearing as an indication. Don’t really want to remove crank as rear crank seal done and timing belt done.

It’s prob last bit I will look at but, For the head is there a way to check for dodgy valve stem oil seals on the bench, I know some are cheap but don’t want to remove decent original parts if not worn

Yes theres SOME original honing marks left, but they look a bit bald, by light honing I mean just scuff them up a bit nothing to precise.

steve2286w · Jun 17, 2019

Got the pistons out today the con rod shell on each is showing the copper , the pistons themselves look good? the rings are all in one piece but dirt/carbon in the grooves. is there a trick to remove rings without snapping them?
the big end journals look ok but need measuring
the main bearing shells cap end are showing copper, no4 main journal is showing slight grooving but the others look ok
I need to get a 50-75mm mic to measure . seen a nice Draper MIC set at Machine Mart good price.
so it looks like i'll need to remove flywheel and timing belt end to get crank out to have a good measure of bearing diameters and bores, then a good clean up.

jamesmartin · Jun 17, 2019

steve2286w said:
Got the pistons out today the con rod shell on each is showing the copper , the pistons themselves look good? the rings are all in one piece but dirt/carbon in the grooves. is there a trick to remove rings without snapping them?
the big end journals look ok but need measuring
the main bearing shells cap end are showing copper, no4 main journal is showing slight grooving but the others look ok
I need to get a 50-75mm mic to measure . seen a nice Draper MIC set at Machine Mart good price.
so it looks like i'll need to remove flywheel and timing belt end to get crank out to have a good measure of bearing diameters and bores, then a good clean up.
View attachment 181615 View attachment 181616 View attachment 181617 View attachment 181618

i wouldnt bother measuring the crank, if it isnt scored it wont be worn enough to worry about,a polish will help using polishing tape you expect the top half of conrod bearings to be the most worn and bottom half of main bearings, theres a tool for removing and refitting piston rings, but before touching rings or bores how did it run and start

steve2286w · Jun 17, 2019

Thanks James
so something like 600-800 grit emery type tape, is it better to remove crank for this or can it be fed round the shaft after removing shell and finish with a clean with dry cloth after?
the engine was reportedly seen running by the guy I got it off who said it started fine and ran with no knocks or smoke hope that's true.
if I get the rings off and check end gaps in bore if these are within spec is it ok to put them back in

windy81 · Jun 17, 2019

new bearing shells and new piston rings with a freshly honed cylinders.

I'm no pro engine builder, but if it were me id get the hone done at an engine shop with a proper honing set up to get the angles correct and even.
Couple that with with measuring the cylinder wear to see how egg shaped they are to see if new piston rings will be ok.
Also i'd plasti-gauge the big ends to ensure they are ok with the new bearing shells.

Might also want to check the small ends whilst your in the machine shop and replace then too if necessary.

Other than that I'd completely refurbish the head, checking everything from the valve seats to the valve guides and once that's done i'd fly with it.

That's just my 2p

jamesmartin · Jun 17, 2019

steve2286w said:
Thanks James
so something like 600-800 grit emery type tape, is it better to remove crank for this or can it be fed round the shaft after removing shell and finish with a clean with dry cloth after?
the engine was reportedly seen running by the guy I got it off who said it started fine and ran with no knocks or smoke hope that's true.
if I get the rings off and check end gaps in bore if these are within spec is it ok to put them back in

yes but keep in the same order a way round, if you stick new rings in and hone poorly it will smoke more than now most likely
but tape you mention is ok and wet petrol or similar rag would be fine and some spray brake clean, you could try 1 main at a time with others still bolted up

lynall · Jun 18, 2019

Just goes to show its always worth looking.
You will want the crank out of the car otherwise fine bits of grit from the emery will end up in the oil ways, plus you wont know whats already in there either.

steve2286w · Jun 18, 2019

lynall said:
You will want the crank out of the car otherwise fine bits of grit from the emery will end up in the oil ways, plus you wont know whats already in there either.

That’s the worry, and the best way to do it, I’m not in a hurry ( I had this sitting for nearly 5 years) , so I’ll get the crank out
Is there a way to clean out the oilways in block / head
I noticed rust inside the block in the waterway holes is it a good idea to jet wash this , or put an additive in and flush when in Landy runnning

lynall · Jun 18, 2019

steve2286w said:
That’s the worry, and the best way to do it, I’m not in a hurry ( I had this sitting for nearly 5 years) , so I’ll get the crank out
Is there a way to clean out the oilways in block / head
I noticed rust inside the block in the waterway holes is it a good idea to jet wash this , or put an additive in and flush when in Landy runnning

Diesel and some small bottle cleaning brushes for the crank and yes pressure washer just fine, but dont let the oil side of the engine go rusty. nice hot day will dry it out fast.
Do some research on the rear crank main bearing T seals as apparently some of the cheap ones are carp.

Flossie · Jun 18, 2019

I recall that there were some plugs in the block that can be removed to aid cleaning. Think they were 1/4 BSP or something.
On the front and rear faces somewhere, might be hidden by the timing belt/flywheel housings?

steve2286w · Jun 18, 2019

Cheers lynall

Flossie said:
I recall that there were some plugs in the block that can be removed to aid cleaning. Think they were 1/4 BSP or something.
On the front and rear faces somewhere, might be hidden by the timing belt/flywheel housings?

Yes I’ve seen a pic of those somewhere can’t recall whether there were oil or water plugs though

Flossie · Jun 18, 2019

Oil, might be sludge in there.

steve2286w · Jun 20, 2019

Thanks , Been looking at the defender manual online , a good read , shows how the oil circulates with the various passageways so should be fairly easy to clean out

steve2286w · Jun 27, 2019

Ok been away for a week and have removed flywheel and outer timing case cover, I have locked the injector pump with pin , if I want to remove crankshaft to clean and polish is it correct I will need to remove the 3 cogs and the timing case. ?

To remove the injector pump is it just a case of
Inserting pin - done with dimple in cog lined up at tdc
Locking pump shaft with bolt
Removing 3 bolts on pump end face next to pin but not big nut
Remove 3 bolts on outer side and the bracket fixings
In doing this the pump setting will be recoverable ? When all cogs are replaced back in position , it’s this bit I’m a bit nervous about

200 tdi Engine checking / refurb??

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