Getting Gwen the Mini to Run.

[Stanleysteamer]

Thanks, you are right, last car I had with a manual choke was my Vauxhall Victor FB 1503cc.
Everything since has had an automatic choke or has been injection/ecu controlled.

Nothing like a trip down memory lane!!!

 

[Stanleysteamer]

I wish I could BA to enter those figures for the needles into Excel and bring up a graph to visualise them. Must go to be now though as I will be up at 06oo tomoz to get to London at a reasonable hour.

 

[landowner]

MG Metro would have BDL needle as standard, you are needing more fuel at low revs because the cam makes it inefficient there so you'll need to modify it at the top with Brasso or fine wet and dry to allow more fuel in.
Could try Landy V8 needles or Rover v8 (BBG) probably be nearer to what you need for tuned motor.
All good fun

 

[Hicap phill]

They do make a nice step key ring for the choke on the bay of fleas. Stops the chicke closing if the trust function is not working

Or use a wooden peg

 

[DanClarke]

I gave it a try out this morning. It didn't go as well as I had hoped. Ran fine on the driveway no issues rev-ing from tickover to 4,000 (same as yesterday). Reversed out into the street and tried to pull away and it was as flat as a pancake, but lots of pops & cracks from the other side of the bulkhead (air-cleaner?).
It lacked any semblance of smoothness but with a bit of more encouragement it managed it up the hill in second, didn't like third.
So it just aint right. Proper timing strobe arrives Friday and I hope that will tell me exactly how much advance is being generated (mechanical & vacuum) and where we are on the spectrum.

 

[landowner]

I gave it a try out this morning. It didn't go as well as I had hoped. Ran fine on the driveway no issues rev-ing from tickover to 4,000 (same as yesterday). Reversed out into the street and tried to pull away and it was as flat as a pancake, but lots of pops & cracks from the other side of the bulkhead (air-cleaner?).
It lacked any semblance of smoothness but with a bit of more encouragement it managed it up the hill in second, didn't like third.
So it just aint right. Proper timing strobe arrives Friday and I hope that will tell me exactly how much advance is being generated (mechanical & vacuum) and where we are on the spectrum.

Something wrong with the sparks I'd say, not strong enough
You could wind the fuel richer a turn see if that helps though
Could be a bad air leak on induction after carb
If timing within 5 degrees of what it needs it'll still run without popping and banging so I'm thinking something that generates the spark is amiss

Or a short when the engine moves starting off

 

[Stanleysteamer]

They do make a nice step key ring for the choke on the bay of fleas. Stops the chicke closing if the trust function is not working

Or use a wooden peg

When I bought one of the kits cars, it already had a clothes peg as fitment on the choke!!

 

[DanClarke]

Royal Mail never fail to disappoint do they?

The affordable timing light/rev-counter etc. etc. was due to arrive this morning and I was looking forward to sorting out the dynamic timing on the mini. Now last night the tracking said "At Chelmsford hub, Delivery will be 09:40 - 12:40 tomorrow".

20 minutes ago today an update.... "Sorry your parcel was sent to the wrong depot (Basildon) instead of Benfleet. Rerouted now and delivery will be tomorrow". Remind me, why do we have postcodes?
No wonder the private companies are stealing all Royal Mail's business. Bunch of incompetents.

But the postie (lovely chap) did deliver the new BDL needle so that has gone in to replace the BBA needle that was in there.
Maybe a chance to sort it all out tomorrow.

Oh, and premature firing while an inlet valve is still open does this to the piston in the carb.
Sooty flashmark on the side facing the inlet manifold.

 

[marjon]

But does it run different/better/worse with the new needle without changing anything else.

I was always taught, change too many things at once and you never know what actually fixed it.

J

 

[Stanleysteamer]

But does it run different/better/worse with the new needle without changing anything else.

I was always taught, change too many things at once and you never know what actually fixed it.

J

Hope so too, and +1 to your last remark, which I echoed some way upthread.

 

[DanClarke]

Thanks both.
As an IBM regional specialist in the Customer Engineering division the "Change 1 thing at a time" isn't lost on me; its standard practice. NO, the needle change on its own has not stopped it popping and farting, so I am really interested in seeing what the actual timing is currently.

While I am told the engine is from a 1275 Metro, and the CAM is "standard" there is no engine serial number on the block for me to decode to prove this fact, so we have to take this on trust for the moment. The Vizard-Wizards tome doesn't really cover hybrid bitsa situations where you have inherited a load of unknowns, so looking on the mini forum(s) the suggestion is that it should be limited under full vac-advance to 32..34 BTDC at high revs (3k and over), and 8..12 BTDC with no vac-advance connected. I want the timing light (should be here tomorrow now) so I can be sure to know exactly where it is set. .
I have checked all the valve clearances are 12 thou' on a cold engine, so that should be ticked off the list.
We have put a Mini-Metro std needle in (BDL) so that should put the fuelling in the right ball-park (may need tuning).
Now the ignition timing needs definitively setting to start off at a correct "ball-park" within a couple of degrees either way.

I'm going to get there....... 1 step at a time. With you guys behind me how can I possibly fail?

 

[Stanleysteamer]

Thanks both.
As an IBM regional specialist in the Customer Engineering division the "Change 1 thing at a time" isn't lost on me; its standard practice. NO, the needle change on its own has not stopped it popping and farting, so I am really interested in seeing what the actual timing is currently.

While I am told the engine is from a 1275 Metro, and the CAM is "standard" there is no engine serial number on the block for me to decode to prove this fact, so we have to take this on trust for the moment. The Vizard-Wizards tome doesn't really cover hybrid bitsa situations where you have inherited a load of unknowns, so looking on the mini forum(s) the suggestion is that it should be limited under full vac-advance to 32..34 BTDC at high revs (3k and over), and 8..12 BTDC with no vac-advance connected. I want the timing light (should be here tomorrow now) so I can be sure to know exactly where it is set. .
I have checked all the valve clearances are 12 thou' on a cold engine, so that should be ticked off the list.
We have put a Mini-Metro std needle in (BDL) so that should put the fuelling in the right ball-park (may need tuning).
Now the ignition timing needs definitively setting to start off at a correct "ball-park" within a couple of degrees either way.

I'm going to get there....... 1 step at a time. With you guys behind me how can I possibly fail?

Glad to hear you are getting there.
Just one thing before you start using the timing light.
I'd suggest checking that TDC really is TDC. It is not at all unknown for the original marks to be out, sometimes very out.
I think you should be able to do this with your DTI and a bit of ingenuity. Forgive me if you have already done this.

 

[DanClarke]

Glad to hear you are getting there.
Just one thing before you start using the timing light.
I'd suggest checking that TDC really is TDC. It is not at all unknown for the original marks to be out, sometimes very out.
I think you should be able to do this with your DTI and a bit of ingenuity. Forgive me if you have already done this.

Already did this with a length of folded welding wire down # plughole to check both inlet & exhaust closed and piston coming up to TDC and it lined up nicely to the pulley mark & block-comb 0°

 

[Hicap phill]

Already did this with a length of folded welding wire down # plughole to check both inlet & exhaust closed and piston coming up to TDC and it lined up nicely to the pulley mark & block-comb 0°

That’s the Best way to find the Tdc

Put your feet up till the strobe arrives.

 

[DanClarke]

I have had the devil's own job getting that drive dog off the new dizzy.
I practised on the old dizzy first, and using a round nail with its end ground flat I managed to knock the roll pin out. As expected, the hole for the roll-pin is central to the shaft and you can flip the drive dog 180°.
So, back to the "new" dizzy that I don't want to damage. Oh "Stone Me" the pin is a different size!
I wondered what I could use to try and drive it out. In the end I sacrificed a 2.5mm drill bit and zip disc'ed the fluted portion off to make a HSS rod that I hoped would drive the pin out. Success!
I turned the drive 180° relative to the shaft and put the pin back in again.
Refitted it and redid the HT wiring in the correct order and orientation (according to the Mini Bible).
It started and ran on choke fine at 1500+ rpm. Freezing my butt off out there so I have come in for my afternoon coffee.
Still go my G-kids to look after here so the proper timing might need to wait as I am getting the evil eye.

 

[DanClarke]

"Permission to play" for a short while was given and so I hooked up my new timing light and had a dabble.
I like the light very much, the readings are clear and rock-steady, the light is very bright.
Ignition advance readings (with vac pipe on) were:
11° at 1,000 RPM
14° at 2,000 RPM
22° at 3,000 RPM

All in I think it is meant to go to around 30..34°

I think I need to do all this again with the vac pipe off first to see what the maximum mechanical advance is, then add the vacuum pipe and re-test. But I was getting a rather cooked hand trying to hold the throttle open and steady, so I have called it a day and locked the dizzy in place. I will try taking it out tomorrow early before there is much traffic about for me to annoy.
At least I can see what's happening on the timing front now.

The old dizzy had no vacuum advance unit, and while I know you can run like that I don't want to.

 

[DanClarke]

I have had a read of some more mini forum posts and I think I will start again tomorrow.
It looks like I ought to remove & plug the vacuum line and check/set the low/hi (min/max) advance capabilities of the mechanical advance first.
Then attach the vacuum advance and do it all again.
The quality of timing light makes it all very easy for sure (100x better than the last one I tried).
I will read back up through this thread because I bet @Stanleysteamer has already told me in very clear "painting by numbers" steps how to accomplish all this.

 

[Stanleysteamer]

I have had a read of some more mini forum posts and I think I will start again tomorrow.
It looks like I ought to remove & plug the vacuum line and check/set the low/hi (min/max) advance capabilities of the mechanical advance first.
Then attach the vacuum advance and do it all again.
The quality of timing light makes it all very easy for sure (100x better than the last one I tried).
I will read back up through this thread because I bet @Stanleysteamer has already told me in very clear "painting by numbers" steps how to accomplish all this.

I'm almost tempteds to go and have a look for this myself!




I did say "almost".

 

[DanClarke]

And now from our roving reporter in Benfleet.........
A long-haired, wild-eyed man was seen screaming through the streets of Benfleet today in a Grey Mini classic while proclaiming "She Lives, professor, She Lives".
At long last I seem to have got it more or less right. It is responsive and full of beans. I played with the new timing light and did what you are meant to do.
1. Set the base timing (vac-off) to 8..10BTDC - Check.
2. Run it up to 3,000 RPM and move the dizzy so that it has c.32° of advance.
3. Lock the Dizzy position.
4. Attach the Vac advance.
5. Go for a drive up a steep hill in 3rd and 4th to listen for "pinking".

It was superb. Only worry was a loud "crack-backfire" into the inlet when I came off the throttle while climbing the hill and arriving at the top.

Almost if not actually there.

 

[Stanleysteamer]

And now from our roving reporter in Benfleet.........
A long-haired, wild-eyed man was seen screaming through the streets of Benfleet today in a Grey Mini classic while proclaiming "She Lives, professor, She Lives".
At long last I seem to have got it more or less right. It is responsive and full of beans. I played with the new timing light and did what you are meant to do.
1. Set the base timing (vac-off) to 8..10BTDC - Check.
2. Run it up to 3,000 RPM and move the dizzy so that it has c.32° of advance.
3. Lock the Dizzy position.
4. Attach the Vac advance.
5. Go for a drive up a steep hill in 3rd and 4th to listen for "pinking".

It was superb. Only worry was a loud "crack-backfire" into the inlet when I came off the throttle while climbing the hill and arriving at the top.

Almost if not actually there.

Really, really pleased for you.
I am pleased that the climbing the hill in a high gear was useful.
So are you going to stick with the BDL needle?
I'm not sure what caused the crack-backfire. Maybe it is still a tad advanced. Perhaps there is wear in the timing chain or summat.
But still very relieved that at last you really are getting there!
I'll raise a glass or two to your success, this evening!