Help on buying a Defender

[suew]

Hi, new to this forum, here for some expert advice.

I used to have an old 90 which I loved to bits but didn't actually know much about. For some reason I was talking into a Discovery which I hated.

Now sold

So I now want another cheap defender. It will only be used for towing my horses and as we no longer compete nationally it will only do a couple of hundred miles a year. It might come out when it snows though It wont be going on motorways much and I never tow above 40 - 50 miles an hour.

My old landy was happy to run around in the summer and then not turn a wheel in winter. The battery was never flat and it would always start. Not so the Discovery, too much electronic junk.

I have started looking at ads and am completely confused. There seems to be no pricing structure based on age or mileage or anything normal

I dont even understand the difference between the engines 2000 / 3000 TD Tdi - WHAT. I'm sure it wasn't this difficult when I bought my first one.

I also dont intend to take the horses swimming so I dont need a snorkel

I dont care what it looks like really but I dont like being stranded at the side of the road. My old defender never did that in 250,000 miles, unlike the Discovery which was on very good terms with Green Flag.

Any ideas what I should actually be looking for. Oh and it would help if the insurance group was not too high, I could then put my daughter on it as well.

Help needed please

 

[Matt TDi]

To start with, you don't put 'cheap' and 'Defender' in the same context, certainly not if you want a good one.

200/300TDi are essentially the same engine, and the ones to have if you're going to be towing. If you had a pre 1998 Discovery, and it was a diesel, it would have been one of these, so you know what it is like.

I would say look at either an earlier 200TDi or later 300TDi Defender, if you want a good one, look at £3k upwards. Some very early Defenders (technically not a Defender, but a Landrover 90/110, before the Defender name was assigned) will have had a TDi engine retrofitted, this isn't a problem, but you need to be assured that the conversion was a good one.

Chassis and bulkhead will be your main cause for concern along with that, so make sure they're in good condition. Anything over £3k should be relatively structurally solid in those respects.

If you don't want one with any off road gear, don't buy one. They don't necessarily add value anyway.

 

[suew]

To start with, you don't put 'cheap' and 'Defender' in the same context, certainly not if you want a good one.

200/300TDi are essentially the same engine, and the ones to have if you're going to be towing. If you had a pre 1998 Discovery, and it was a diesel, it would have been one of these, so you know what it is like.

I would say look at either an earlier 200TDi or later 300TDi Defender, if you want a good one, look at £3k upwards. Some very early Defenders (technically not a Defender, but a Landrover 90/110, before the Defender name was assigned) will have had a TDi engine retrofitted, this isn't a problem, but you need to be assured that the conversion was a good one.

Chassis and bulkhead will be your main cause for concern along with that, so make sure they're in good condition. Anything over £3k should be relatively structurally solid in those respects.

If you don't want one with any off road gear, don't buy one. They don't necessarily add value anyway.

Thank you

I meant cheap for a defender Just didn't see the point in spending a fortune for a few hundred miles.

I didn't realise they had the same engine as my Disco, that had plenty of power for towing, just not very reliable.

My old 90 didn't have all the engine management stuff and I must say it seemed much more reliable. That said you probably cant buy the more basic stuff anymore. I maybe just had a bad one.

Do you mind me asking what sort of age the chassis and bulkhead is likely to be OK from.

Would you avoid ones over a certain mileage, it didn't seem to bother my old one, but the engine had been rebuilt.

The snorkel comment was about the nicer ones having all sorts of fancy stuff that I dont need and wouldn't know how to work.

 

[Matt TDi]

Thank you

I meant cheap for a defender Just didn't see the point in spending a fortune for a few hundred miles.

I didn't realise they had the same engine as my Disco, that had plenty of power for towing, just not very reliable.

My old 90 didn't have all the engine management stuff and I must say it seemed much more reliable. That said you probably cant buy the more basic stuff anymore. I maybe just had a bad one.

Do you mind me asking what sort of age the chassis and bulkhead is likely to be OK from.

Would you avoid ones over a certain mileage, it didn't seem to bother my old one, but the engine had been rebuilt.

The snorkel comment was about the nicer ones having all sorts of fancy stuff that I dont need and wouldn't know how to work.

It depends what Discovery you had. If you had a 1998> Discovery, it would have been a TD5, they are electronically controlled and can be more problematic, especially electronically. TD5s are also fitted to the Defenders, but again only 1998 onward models.

There isn't really an age where you can say that there's a turning point that things like the bulkhead and chassis start to rot, a lot are working vehicles so it depends largely on what sort of life they've had, and how they have been looked after. Obviously the older the vehicle gets, and probably if you had to pick an era I'd say about 20 years old onward, the more chance there is of non cherished, non restored examples being of a worse condition, but that's still not always the case. Most hard worked vehicles at or over that age will have had a rear cross member changed, or been heavily patched unless, again, it's been well cared for from a young age.

Rear cross members are relatively easy to change, bulkheads are much more problematic. They can be patched, and weld in sections are available, but there becomes a point where they have to be pulled out if they're too bad, and either extensively repaired or replaced. Extremely expensive if you commission the work to a garage, and time consuming if you do it yourself.

Mileage, again it's more about condition than mileage. Take someone with you who's mechanically good if you're not, if it looks and feels good, it probably is (and vice/verser) you can tell when a powerplant has been cared for. They can do upto 300,000 on original internals, but I'd certainly budget for future engine refurb work on even a cared for vehicle that's clocked up over 200,000.

 

[suew]

It depends what Discovery you had. If you had a 1998> Discovery, it would have been a TD5, they are electronically controlled and can be more problematic, especially electronically. TD5s are also fitted to the Defenders, but again only 1998 onward models.

There isn't really an age where you can say that there's a turning point that things like the bulkhead and chassis start to rot, a lot are working vehicles so it depends largely on what sort of life they've had, and how they have been looked after. Obviously the older the vehicle gets, and probably if you had to pick an era I'd say about 20 years old onward, the more chance there is of non cherished, non restored examples being of a worse condition, but that's still not always the case. Most hard worked vehicles at or over that age will have had a rear cross member changed, or been heavily patched unless, again, it's been well cared for from a young age.

Rear cross members are relatively easy to change, bulkheads are much more problematic. They can be patched, and weld in sections are available, but there becomes a point where they have to be pulled out if they're too bad, and either extensively repaired or replaced. Extremely expensive if you commission the work to a garage, and time consuming if you do it yourself.

Mileage, again it's more about condition than mileage. Take someone with you who's mechanically good if you're not, if it looks and feels good, it probably is (and vice/verser) you can tell when a powerplant has been cared for. They can do upto 300,000 on original internals, but I'd certainly budget for future engine refurb work on even a cared for vehicle that's clocked up over 200,000.

Thank you again. Yes my Discovery was newer than 1998 it was also a top of the range model so more electronic stuff to go wrong. That really helps, so I want pre 1998 and not a TD5.

I was looking at some in the 1996 onwards bracket so this narrows it down a lot. Most of the ones I have seen are 90,00 - 130,000 so mileage should not be a problem.

I dont really have anyone mechanically inclined to take with me since my father and partner died but will try to think of someone.

I am capable of checking the chassis and bulkhead but the engine would be beyond me.

 

[Matt TDi]

If it sounds alright (All TDis are a little tappy) and the oil looks good, and there's not plooms of smoke, especially bluey coloured smoke, then it stands a good chance of being a good one.

 

[suew]

If it sounds alright (All TDis are a little tappy) and the oil looks good, and there's not plooms of smoke, especially bluey coloured smoke, then it stands a good chance of being a good one.

Thanks, what does good oil look like?

 

[Matt TDi]

Thanks, what does good oil look like?

I can tell you what bad oil looks like, it's thick like custard, blacker than Bobby Brown's forehead and absolutely stinks of tired engine

 

[suew]

I can tell you what bad oil looks like, it's thick like custard, blacker than Bobby Brown's forehead and absolutely stinks of tired engine

LOL I'll watch out for that then

Thanks

 

[wickford90]

Thank you again. Yes my Discovery was newer than 1998 it was also a top of the range model so more electronic stuff to go wrong. That really helps, so I want pre 1998 and not a TD5.

I was looking at some in the 1996 onwards bracket so this narrows it down a lot. Most of the ones I have seen are 90,00 - 130,000 so mileage should not be a problem.

I dont really have anyone mechanically inclined to take with me since my father and partner died but will try to think of someone.

I am capable of checking the chassis and bulkhead but the engine would be beyond me.

If you put your rough location someone on here might be willing to go with you and have a look for they price of a burger and pint.

 

[Clanforbes]

And some people do actually like the TD5 defenders ... I know I do.

 

[suew]

If you put your rough location someone on here might be willing to go with you and have a look for they price of a burger and pint.

Thank you

I am in Leeds but I dont know where I will find one to look at

 

[suew]

And some people do actually like the TD5 defenders ... I know I do.

I dont know about the defenders at all. The Disco was horrible. I broke down twice on the motorway, once in a blizzard, thank god for Green Flag.

It broke down twice with the horses, meaning I had to have the vehicle recovered by green flag and the horses and trailer by my other breakdown company.

It got embarrassing. It wasn't lack of maintenance either. Once was a week after it had a full service with new timing belt and lots of other stuff.

It also locked me out on more than one occasion. And coming back from a show north of London the sunroof and windows decided to stick just as the weather changed from spring sunshine to a hail storm.

I could go on for pages, it just wasn't a happy vehicle, now sent off over Rainbow Bridge, best place for it.

 

[Matt TDi]

Do you mean Aux belt?

TD5 doesn't use a timing belt, it's chain driven.

There are some bad apples/missfortunate ones out there that seem to go wrong every 5 days, but when they are working the TD5s are superb engines. I've got one in my 110 and with the remap it would pull the isle of white closer if given the chance.

 

[suew]

Do you mean Aux belt?

TD5 doesn't use a timing belt, it's chain driven.

There are some bad apples/missfortunate ones out there that seem to go wrong every 5 days, but when they are working the TD5s are superb engines. I've got one in my 110 and with the remap it would pull the isle of white closer if given the chance.

No idea about the belt, something in the top of the engine, I thought it was described as a timing belt but I have probably got it wrong (could have been a chain)

Whatever it was it didn't stop the engine doing something called "dropping a valve" (I think) a week later

You lost me altogether on the second sentence, what is a remap, should I look for one that has one?

 

[Matt TDi]

Probably an aux belt you had done.

A remap is a way of tuning up an electronically controlled engine (TD5). You can't do it to a 200/300TDi because they are mechanical engines. You can still get more power from them though, you just have to adjust the fuelling and boost.

 

[suew]

Probably an aux belt you had done.

A remap is a way of tuning up an electronically controlled engine (TD5). You can't do it to a 200/300TDi because they are mechanical engines. You can still get more power from them though, you just have to adjust the fuelling and boost.

Sounds good but I probably wont need it for the job I want it for. My trailer is up to 2.7 tonnes but even the old 90 that did not have the turbo charged engine pulled it OK (the odd times we needed first gear but I still had low box ) I dont want anything as old as that though, it had no power steering which was bit of a pain when we stopped at MacDonalds on the way home from shows. Anyone else tried getting round a car park with a large trailer and no power steering

 

[Matt TDi]

As it happens, yes.

I had a 2.5 N/A ex military Defender that I wrongly assumed would be fine pulling a heavy car trailer half way round the country with.

No idea what the rolling tonnage was, but I was overtaken at one point by some maniac on a zimmer frame. And by the time I finished the torturous journey on the old military slab cushion seat I spent the next day walking around like an inverted J.

 

[Station House]

Defender Buyers Guide

 

[suew]

As it happens, yes.

I had a 2.5 N/A ex military Defender that I wrongly assumed would be fine pulling a heavy car trailer half way round the country with.

No idea what the rolling tonnage was, but I was overtaken at one point by some maniac on a zimmer frame. And by the time I finished the torturous journey on the old military slab cushion seat I spent the next day walking around like an inverted J.

LOL I can imagine.

Another daft question. Do the Defender have ABS now, if so when did it come in. That was another thing I didn't like on the Disco, if it had to tow the trailer out of a muddy show ground we would always end up with the sensor lights on. Why put something so sensitive on a potential off road vehicle.