G

guzzi lemans

Member
Surprised this has not been discussed in the daily's or 4 wheel publications, this has been announced on the bike website, "Visordown"
It appears the government is looking to change the laws kept from the EU, to the extent that any modifications to the environmental or functionality of a vehicle (2, 3, 4, HGV, farm, forestry and non-road etc) will be illegal with specific offences created. The really nasty bit is that it becomes retrospective, so all the pdf kits, catalyst removals, remaps, tuning boxes etc become illegal, and the purchase of a vehicle equipped becomes the purchasers liability. This will probably kill manufacturers of a lot of parts - intercoolers, turbo's, exhaust products etc.
This will probably force a lot of vehicles off the road as some of these parts will be impossible to obtain now, say an EGR valve for a TDI300, though as not all manual vehicles had them, and is the information available that states that VIN had one fitted? The cost will probably be exorbitant too for the replacement parts.
It is out for consolation until 22nd Nov, with legislation in place in 2024.
Maybe the upside is that standard vehicles may increase in value?
 
guzzi lemans said:
Surprised this has not been discussed in the daily's or 4 wheel publications, this has been announced on the bike website, "Visordown"
It appears the government is looking to change the laws kept from the EU, to the extent that any modifications to the environmental or functionality of a vehicle (2, 3, 4, HGV, farm, forestry and non-road etc) will be illegal with specific offences created. The really nasty bit is that it becomes retrospective, so all the pdf kits, catalyst removals, remaps, tuning boxes etc become illegal, and the purchase of a vehicle equipped becomes the purchasers liability. This will probably kill manufacturers of a lot of parts - intercoolers, turbo's, exhaust products etc.
This will probably force a lot of vehicles off the road as some of these parts will be impossible to obtain now, say an EGR valve for a TDI300, though as not all manual vehicles had them, and is the information available that states that VIN had one fitted? The cost will probably be exorbitant too for the replacement parts.
It is out for consolation until 22nd Nov, with legislation in place in 2024.
Maybe the upside is that standard vehicles may increase in value?
Click to expand...
Bit similar to this, maybe.

https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/uk-govt-plans-to-mod-cars-illegal.375336/
 
Didn't see that conversation, still surprised that the subject hasn't got into the general public conversation, especially the retrospective bit, and it is especially ironic being that it brings the UK (sorry have to call it GB now) closer to the EU than before Brexit!
2024 could be interesting!
 
guzzi lemans said:
Didn't see that conversation, still surprised that the subject hasn't got into the general public conversation, especially the retrospective bit, and it is especially ironic being that it brings the UK (sorry have to call it GB now) closer to the EU than before Brexit!
2024 could be interesting!
Click to expand...
Not a problem, but you may find that some of the people who posted in the AG thread may not now reply to yours.
You could ask admin to merge the two threads if you want.
There does seem to be some interest in the subject. Personally, it doesn't bother me, as I never modify vehicles, with the exception of galvanised chassis and similar, which I assume will not be effected.
 
Same with me, LPG will not be affected as it is incorporated within the V5c, I guess that many 'improvements' such as the VE pump adjustments on the 200TDI and 300TDI will not be affected as it will not be possible too determine what the original settings were providing that parts have not been changed, same with EGR on manual TDI300 as these were not all so equipped, though if the electrics for the solenoid are there I guess it is fait accompli.
The electrical and other modifications to later vehicles could be another context entirely.
I did see a company is converting cars to EV, using scrap Tesla and Nissan battery packs and motors, the cost for a LR at the moment was quoted as £20000, though the guy in the interview reckoned that could come down to £5000 or so for a Landy as they were so simple.
It is only consultation at the moment, and 2024 is a long way off, it may get changed as the retrospective part making an act illegal 20 or so years ago is quite strange and would have to be tested in a court I would think.
 
guzzi lemans said:
Same with me, LPG will not be affected as it is incorporated within the V5c, I guess that many 'improvements' such as the VE pump adjustments on the 200TDI and 300TDI will not be affected as it will not be possible too determine what the original settings were providing that parts have not been changed, same with EGR on manual TDI300 as these were not all so equipped, though if the electrics for the solenoid are there I guess it is fait accompli.
The electrical and other modifications to later vehicles could be another context entirely.
I did see a company is converting cars to EV, using scrap Tesla and Nissan battery packs and motors, the cost for a LR at the moment was quoted as £20000, though the guy in the interview reckoned that could come down to £5000 or so for a Landy as they were so simple.
It is only consultation at the moment, and 2024 is a long way off, it may get changed as the retrospective part making an act illegal 20 or so years ago is quite strange and would have to be tested in a court I would think.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say any of that is unlikely. A lot of this stuff doesn't pan out as bad as expected.

I suspect the new legislation has come about in part due to incidents like the one a few years ago, where a wheel came off a badly modified Landrover, and a little girl on the pavement was killed.

There has a already been a lengthy and very acrimonious discussion of this on LZ, but I can't remember what the thread was called now.
 
Just checked my VIN for both disco's, with surprising results.
The 3 door TDI300 1998 has a 16L engine, no EGR or Cats fitted
The 5 door V8 is apparently a 110 inch wheelbase (SALLJR) which is interesting! No wonder I struggle with parts.......
I've checked on several VIN decoders and they all state the R refers to a 110 (some say 24volt) as it was reimported from Japan I would have expected to see a J here.
 
Once this causes problems I expect the backlash will be enough to stop it
 
Turboman said:
I wouldn't say any of that is unlikely. A lot of this stuff doesn't pan out as bad as expected.
I suspect the new legislation has come about in part due to incidents like the one a few years ago, where a wheel came off a badly modified Landrover, and a little girl on the pavement was killed .
Click to expand...

I remember this tragic accident years ago, but never saw/heard/read the outcome of the ensuring investigation.
 
There was a backlash recently when it looked as if the government was going to make many if not all kit cars illegal overnight, for some things.
Once it was pointed out to them how many companies would go bust straight away, they made an exception.
In the past they have never made anything to do with motor vehicles retrospective. MOTs are sympathetic with the year of manufacture, i.e. no component on any vehicle is to be judged to a later standard than the one extant at time of manufacture.

And remember the House of Commons has its own car club.

At the moment ULEZ if far more of a problem. Peeps who one moment could legitimately drive their vehicles from A to B in their local area, are suddenly having burning crosses held up to them and being told to either get rid of the vehicle or pay an exorbitant charge to drive it. So poorer peeps with older cars are being penalised. Sucks.:mad::mad::mad::mad:
 
Stanleysteamer said:
There was a backlash recently when it looked as if the government was going to make many if not all kit cars illegal overnight, for some things.
Once it was pointed out to them how many companies would go bust straight away, they made an exception.
In the past they have never made anything to do with motor vehicles retrospective. MOTs are sympathetic with the year of manufacture, i.e. no component on any vehicle is to be judged to a later standard than the one extant at time of manufacture.

And remember the House of Commons has its own car club.

At the moment ULEZ if far more of a problem. Peeps who one moment could legitimately drive their vehicles from A to B in their local area, are suddenly having burning crosses held up to them and being told to either get rid of the vehicle or pay an exorbitant charge to drive it. So poorer peeps with older cars are being penalised. Sucks.:mad::mad::mad::mad:
Click to expand...
Bearing in mind that a 2001 Focus is ULEZ compliant, that doesn't seem a great imposition. Many are available starting at about 500 quid.

There are good reasons for the imposition of ULEZ, some people have died as a result of air pollution in London.
 
Turboman said:
Bearing in mind that a 2001 Focus is ULEZ compliant, that doesn't seem a great imposition. Many are available starting at about 500 quid.
There are good reasons for the imposition of ULEZ, some people have died as a result of air pollution in London.
Click to expand...

That's always assuming you want to run around in a £500 2001 Focus.
Not for me thank you my standards are higher than that. Old cars yes, but those that were designed/built to a better standard & have been well maintained. Fortunately we reside well away from 'His' noisy crowded city, but I do empathise with those owners of perfectly sound non-compliant cars.

As for the pollution angle, I suspect a far higher percentage have died from RTA's (sorry, now RTC) & crime :(
 
norseman said:
That's always assuming you want to run around in a £500 2001 Focus.
Not for me thank you my standards are higher than that. Old cars yes, but those that were designed/built to a better standard & have been well maintained. Fortunately we reside well away from 'His' noisy crowded city, but I do empathise with those owners of perfectly sound non-compliant cars.

As for the pollution angle, I suspect a far higher percentage have died from RTA's (sorry, now RTC) & crime :(
Click to expand...
That wasn't the point. And all subsequent Fords, and most other petrol cars after that date are also eligible, if you want to drive one of those.

The point was that ULEZ is not discriminatory against the poor. Poor people often don't drive, but they do often live beside, or close to, busy roads. If they do drive, they will probably have a small, petrol engined car, which will be compliant with ULEZ.

I do spend a good deal of time in London, and will be continuing to do so for some time, as my parents live there.
And I welcome the introduction of ULEZ, because quality of life in London is adversely impacted by motor vehicles.
 
The govt will back down and make the legislation only apply to later cars with proper emissions kit and obd sockets, people will think they have won, but the govt will have gotten what they really wanted in the first place.
They know full well give it a decade and most of the mainstream dirty ****ters (D2/D3 etc) will be long gone.
 
Turboman said:
The point was that ULEZ is not discriminatory against the poor. Poor people often don't drive, but they do often live beside, or close to, busy roads. If they do drive, they will probably have a small, petrol engine car, which will be compliant with ULEZ.
Click to expand...

Don't think we are singing from the same hymn sheet here, though it depends on your definition of 'poor' people.
My concern is for those who are currently driving perfectly good cars that are now non-compliant, relying on those motors for work & family activities, but unable to afford the financial burden of up-grading to a compliant alternative.
I have two modern petrol engine classics that were expensive when new, with a combined age of 57 years. They are well maintained & should serve me well for many more years to come, without the horrific depreciation involved with the purchase of more modern 'compliant' cars. If I was unfortunate enough to live within or travel into the ULEZ I would be in the aforementioned situation with both cars rendered virtually worthless overnight.
 
norseman said:
Don't think we are singing from the same hymn sheet here, though it depends on your definition of 'poor' people.
My concern is for those who are currently driving perfectly good cars that are now non-compliant, relying on those motors for work & family activities, but unable to afford the financial burden of up-grading to a compliant alternative.
I have two modern petrol engine classics that were expensive when new, with a combined age of 57 years. They are well maintained & should serve me well for many more years to come, without the horrific depreciation involved with the purchase of more modern 'compliant' cars. If I was unfortunate enough to live within or travel into the ULEZ I would be in the aforementioned situation with both cars rendered virtually worthless overnight.
Click to expand...
That is OK, you are allowed to differ.

However, as you say, you don't have to come into London, so it doesn't affect you.

And if you did, the cars would not be rendered worthless overnight. The changes to ULEZ have been well publicised for at least ten years, so you would have had plenty of time to sell the cars. Also, as most classic cars aren't used very often, and the charge only applies when the cars move, you could just pay the charge when you do use them, it is only £12.50 a day.

Most Londoners that I know are fairly comfortable with ULEZ. I do get good entertainment from these threads, because they are mostly the same.
People post up and say what an outrage ULEZ is, and then say that they never go to London, and don't want to.
Which is really just being offended on someone else's behalf.
 
This has been coming for a while, key I believe is the emissions and environmental element. Changes (tampering?) with emissions controls will be a crime. In reality I think this crept in in 2018 but its only now getting enforced. This will come under the COP26 banner so I recon its unstoppable. Expect chipping, remapping, de-cat and noisier exhaust to be the main targets as they all make changes to the emissions in one way or another. My plan so far as I have one is to be running one historic and one EV by 2024.
 
Turboman said:
That is OK, you are allowed to differ.
Which is really just being offended on someone else's behalf.
Click to expand...

I totally agree about the differing opinion, just one final point if I may ...

I am not, as you suggest, in the least bit offended. I just have empathy for fellow modern classic owners. After all the pollution/emissions emitted by the factory when their car was created are reckoned to be the greater percentage of the cars lifetime emissions. Purchasing a replacement (especially a brand new one) is renewing the cycle, no matter how eco-friendly it is.
 
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