Turboman said:
That sort of peaty ground is very soft when waterlogged. Waffle boards help spread the load, but jacking can be tricky with the vehicle so far down already. Often causes bodywork damage.

I think you are right, the thing is pretty much bellied out on the edge of the track.

It may become a permanent memorial to his stupidity! :eek::D

Sorry I didn't see the thread earlier. I would have suggested that no-one risk their vehicles going up there.
Click to expand...
Jacking vehicles in that situation would require air jack to be done safely but on a car that would cost about the same as my air jack to replace I’d be reluctant to use it unless the op was covering damages.
 
johnlad said:
Jacking vehicles in that situation would require air jack to be done safely but on a car that would cost about the same as my air jack to replace I’d be reluctant to use it unless the op was covering damages.
Click to expand...

Air jack would be useful, I have always been too mean to spring for one myself. :)

I have recovered tractors worse than that before by traditional means, one was broken completely in two, and on it's side in a swamp.

Takes time, and there is a risk of damage to the vehicle. Especially a soft vehicle like that. The situation there is made worse by the fact there are no trees for attachment of Tirfor and block and tackle.
As you say, the value of a P reg CRV may not justify the effort in this case. Might be better to wait until spring, recover with a tractor, and take it to a scrappie.
 
brian47 said:
Here are some of more pics of the situation last night.
Weather wise, we all got off the mountain just before it started to rain quite heavily. Thanks to Alan and his mates for all their help during this rescue.
Click to expand...

As said earlier, nice to see folk trying to help and glad there were no relatively serious injuries!

Thinking ahead, I think we ought to think of a MO, for future 'rescues', for which I'll start a new discussion thread in LZIR .. MO The thread is not for pointing fingers or scoring points, but for genuine ideas and comments for OUR safety and professionalism.

Having said that ... Looks a great track, pity it ain't a Byway ... I might go anyway ... (joke) ;)
 
goonarmy said:
No not an exaggeration at all. An injury is an injury, regardless of pre-existing conditions. This is a fair and reasonable summary. Permission or not you still got to wonder what they were doing there in that motor. I weren't bothered about the OP, but it starts to become a worry when established memebers off here get into trouble. Is this not a situation where the local farmer should have been contacted in the first place? Seing as its presumably farmland the farmer would be expected to have or know (and did) someone with suitable gear to get them out. This is not a criticism of LZIR, but the system is being abused.
Your disappointment in local members not reply is VERY open to criticism, remember no one on this list works here. I'll leave that at that. In summary it appears we are getting the p**s taken out of us with people literally risking a lot to help strangers. Maybe im speaking out of term, I'm delibeately not in the list but did seriously consider the drive (mainly cos I'm bored) but not for the OP, for the LZ members in trouble.
Click to expand...

I agree entirely with your assessment. My brother and I offered help but again mainly because we wanted to see it for ourselves.

In my job I am required to own a lot of risk and would have terminated as soon as I had seen the conditions. LZIR works brilliantly but the forum cannot be held responsible for individuals actions. If we decide to go it's out of the goodness of our hearts. It's down to each and every one of us to decide whether we transfer the risk to someone else, tolerate it and make it safe for ourselves, or terminate and with draw in good order.
 
I forgot to give a "mention in dispatches" to @Grem and @Pillar for their kind offer to assist, but as night was drawing in, the priority was getting everybody off the mountain safely as soon as we possibly could, there was no way that Alan or I would even contemplate leaving our vehicles up there and I don't think either of us were particularly well equipped for an overnight stay in our vehicles, and having already twisted my ankle when I tried to answer a call on nature, there was no way that I was able to walk off.
 
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I am just in awe of the would be rescuers for turning out in the first place and for putting themselves and their vehicles in harms way for someone they have never met and has only just signed up to LandyZone.
Bravo Gents! Bravo!

re-posted as I put this in the wrong place. (they hate it when you do that). ;-)
 
jamesmartin said:
thats untrue and hardly helps anything,and you wonder that lz has so much bickering when you stoop to uncalled for name calling,
im making a serious point,its one thing aiding a break down or at the side of the road ,another such as this and that recent stuck down a snowy lane,
Click to expand...
What name calling?
What does “LZ shouldn’t help in off road situations - leave it to the professionals” bring to the party?
If you don’t want to help, that’s fine - it is voluntary, however others want to help and I am not going to put them off.
Despite the nay-sayers, several peeps have signed up to LZIR today.
Safety is always paramount. Individuals know their capabilities better than you or I. I am happy to leave it to their discretion.
 
The Mad Hat Man said:
What name calling?
What does “LZ shouldn’t help in off road situations - leave it to the professionals” bring to the party?
If you don’t want to help, that’s fine - it is voluntary, however others want to help and I am not going to put them off.
Despite the nay-sayers, several peeps have signed up to LZIR today.
Safety is always paramount. Individuals know their capabilities better than you or I. I am happy to leave it to their discretion.
Click to expand...
read your post again id say it was unneccessary
helping people is good, asking folks to risk health and vehicle is not, as i said people feel obliged
 
The Mad Hat Man said:
Despite the nay-sayers, several peeps have signed up to LZIR today.
Click to expand...

There might be a number of new members to LZ, but it does pain me somewhat that some of them just want or need assistance and once we've "pulled their nuts out of the fire" they vanish again back into the areas of t'interweb where I fear to tread, Farcebook, Snapnumpty or wherever. It would be nice if after we've contributed to their lives if they would stick around and contribute a bit to the forum.
 
jamesmartin said:
you do by asking folks to help in these more extreme situations including the snowy lane one, id like to see more assessment before asking people
Click to expand...

Who will assess from the comfort of their armchair ?

Someone needs to go look and check local conditions for both vehicle and persons involved ...
 
Dippypud said:
Who will assess from the comfort of their armchair ?

Someone needs to go look and check local conditions for both vehicle and persons involved ...
Click to expand...
if you cant get sufficient info, wait until you can before asking people to commit themselves
 
The Mad Hat Man said:
What name calling?
What does “LZ shouldn’t help in off road situations - leave it to the professionals” bring to the party?
If you don’t want to help, that’s fine - it is voluntary, however others want to help and I am not going to put them off.
Despite the nay-sayers, several peeps have signed up to LZIR today.
Safety is always paramount. Individuals know their capabilities better than you or I. I am happy to leave it to their discretion.
Click to expand...
Take a step back MHM.
Look at what happened.

People signing up for LZIR is irrelevant if they don't turn up. The help offered is a good thing, what happened last night was not. It's not being critical, its being honest. There are good points being raised on the MO thread, read them. I would be very concerned if i was responsible for sending people out and they came back with damage or injury -last night they had both.
 
To be fair James, I get where you are coming from but also its down to the individual who agrees to help to then carry out their own dynamic risk assessment once they turn up.

Some of the initial information provided may not be 100% accurate so one should not feel pressured to helping if, when you turn up, the situation is quite different to what you'd expected.
 
brian47 said:
There might be a number of new members to LZ, but it does pain me somewhat that some of them just want or need assistance and once we've "pulled their nuts out of the fire" they vanish again back into the areas of t'interweb where I fear to tread, Farcebook, Snapnumpty or wherever. It would be nice if after we've contributed to their lives if they would stick around and contribute a bit to the forum.
Click to expand...
Given the attitudes of some long standing members towards each other recently I'm surprised so many people stay:oops:
 
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