allan downes said:
I was there last night a jcb is no good its verry slippy marsh bog and a drop to your rig ht as you try to come up the hill i nearly went over but managed with my mate paul a ground anchor and got up and u then winched the disco up. The guy must have been nuts. Really. Its total foolery. Ive not assesed the damage to my truck as for the tree damage. But it seemed he had a cheap soft roader. And lets have fun. Really puts others at rist. I will nit do this again. I dont fancy writing off a 10 to 15 grand landy for the sake of someone elses foolery.
Click to expand...

The place looks extremely dangerous. As you say, great risk of slipping off the ridge and sideways into the bog.
I only saw the thread late last night, and was surprised that so many had gone there, and indeed that OP had risked his vehicle in such a place.

A digger might get up, by using its bucket as a ground anchor, and crawling up to the bucket, and then putting the arm out again and repeating. They also have good permanent 4WD, and tread on the tyres.
When it got to the vehicle, it could put the stands down, and use a chain attached to the bucket to withdraw the SUV.

If I was the digger driver, I would want to be well paid, it will be a long, slow job, and there will be some risk to the digger itself.
 
please don’t throw anything at me ;):D

will be interesting to see if at all possible some piccies plse when everyone has got out safe and sound
 
I will not comment further on the injury. The injured party can if he wishes.
I thing we all agree the OP was stupid, to put it mildly to attempt that and on his own and in those conditions.
My criticism was only that it is no point signing up for LZIR if you cannot be contacted or don’t reply. We all understand peeps can’t or don’t want a shout, but it helps is immensely if we know who is available.
 
goonarmy said:
No not an exaggeration at all. An injury is an injury, regardless of pre-existing conditions. This is a fair and reasonable summary. Permission or not you still got to wonder what they were doing there in that motor. I weren't bothered about the OP, but it starts to become a worry when established memebers off here get into trouble. Is this not a situation where the local farmer should have been contacted in the first place? Seing as its presumably farmland the farmer would be expected to have or know (and did) someone with suitable gear to get them out. This is not a criticism of LZIR, but the system is being abused.
Your disappointment in local members not reply is VERY open to criticism, remember no one on this list works here. I'll leave that at that. In summary it appears we are getting the p**s taken out of us with people literally risking a lot to help strangers. Maybe im speaking out of term, I'm delibeately not in the list but did seriously consider the drive (mainly cos I'm bored) but not for the OP, for the LZ members in trouble.
Click to expand...

I think MHM and the other members were just trying to help.

Personally, I would question the sense of the OP.

First off, he operated way outside his experience, and the capabilities of his vehicle, in terrain he was incapable of weighing up.

Then, instead of putting his hand up, and paying someone properly equipped and skilled to get him out, he appealed for unpaid volunteer help on the internet.

Serve him right if his vehicle is damaged, or stays there until Spring, IMO.
 
blue beasty said:
Most people join because they need help and I'd rather this thread didn't turn into an argument by people who weren't there.

The discussion is valid but needs to be in another thread, probably the Secure Unit.
Click to expand...
I would say that maybe another thread on here as not everyone in the list will be able to get into the secure unit.
 
Turboman said:
I think MHM and the other members were just trying to help.

Personally, I would question the sense of the OP.

First off, he operated way outside his experience, and the capabilities of his vehicle, in terrain he was incapable of weighing up.

Then, instead of putting his hand up, and paying someone properly equipped and skilled to get him out, he appealed for unpaid volunteer help on the internet.

Serve him right if his vehicle is damaged, or stays there until Spring, IMO.
Click to expand...
I'd agree with that totally but it's also resulted in our members with damage and an injury. If we were doing this at a professional level that would be a big deal, but because we are amateur it becomes "oh well". Anyway, like B& suggested probably a thread for elsewhere, not here. People with valid input might miss it here.
 
goonarmy said:
I'd agree with that totally but it's also resulted in our members with damage and an injury. If we were doing this at a professional level that would be a big deal, but because we are amateur it becomes "oh well". Anyway, like B& suggested probably a thread for elsewhere, not here. People with valid input might miss it here.
Click to expand...

Fortunately, the injury seems to be fairly slight. And hopefully the members will be willing to write off the damage as experience. Lot of people damage their vehicles at P and P, etc.

Bit too late for valid input, the thing is where it is now, and may be for a while unless a local contractor recovers it for a fee.
 
Turboman said:
There is a pic at Post 74. It is immediately obvious to the experienced eye that it is not the sort of place to go, alone, in an SUV in the wintertime.
Click to expand...

oh, sorry mate , i missed that , many thks

erm, :eek:

554A2CBD-7FCD-47CB-8212-7227ED2A9E44.gif
 
Here are some of more pics of the situation last night.
Weather wise, we all got off the mountain just before it started to rain quite heavily. The ground was sodden with as someone else had said very wet vegitation on scree and clay. Very slippery underfoot. The wetness was due not only to the rain and mists but also to meltwater which for some reason I still don't fully understand always seems to be "wetter" than ordinary rainwater.
As you can see from the pictures the CR-V was fairly well bogged down, having slipped off the track to the right. I managed to get down to it OK and was able to turn around. After hitching a tow strop to it and giving it a good pull, it was fairly obvious that it wasn't going to move. The next problem was how to get out again. That hill in front of the Disco doesn't look like much, but it was just the first half of the climb which at times raised to almost 45 degrees with a frightening drop which seemed to suck you towards it on the left side. I did tell the OP that a tractor or a Unimogg was the sort of thing he needed really.
The top of the hill in the picture was just about half way up. I managed to get up the hill for a short way by using some of the vegitation under the wheels for a bit more grip but even that became impossible.
Alan managed to get to the top of the hill and winch me up towards him in his very well appointed Defender, but as he started to reverse back up the hill with the winch free-spooling, his wheels started spinning too. the result was he couldn't go any further up and there was no way I was going to reverse back down the hill which might well have resulted in both of us being stuck at the bottom. The only way was a winch to pull him up the hill and then he could winch my Disco up then. This we were able to do once a friend of Alan's turned up, but even that operation was fraught with hazards. Being unable to distinguish the track fro the rest of the mountain, Alan reversed a bit too close to the edge and started to drop of the track, at which point ground anchors and snatch blocks were called for.
We finally got back up to a point where Alan could turn around to face the right way, as he said to me on the radio, he was feeling much happier once that point had been reached.
One the rest of the way down the mountain which was even then pretty hairy I was able to continue giving the OP a continual b0llocking about his actions causing two of us to get stuck and needing yet a third vehicle equipped with a winch.
Dipps mentioned that even a twisted ankle can be life threatening in those places, well, yes I did get out of the Disco to answer a call of nature, slipped and over I went, twisted the afforementioned ankle as I did. And it was the left (clutch) foot too. Then when I got home, as I got out of the Disco, I realised that I couldn't take any weight on the damned thing and over I went again, but I dealt with that in an earlier post.
Still everybody got off the mountain safely. Would I have gone there on my own for no other reason than to see what a vehicle could do? Absolutely no way it was a totally stupid situation from the start.
Thanks to Alan and his mates for all their help during this rescue.

20171229_140917.jpg


20171229_140930.jpg


20171229_140949.jpg
 
brian47 said:
Here are some of more pics of the situation last night.
Weather wise, we all got off the mountain just before it started to rain quite heavily. The ground was sodden with as someone else had said very wet vegitation on scree and clay. Very slippery underfoot. The wetness was due not only to the rain and mists but also to meltwater which for some reason I still don't fully understand always seems to be "wetter" than ordinary rainwater.
As you can see from the pictures the CR-V was fairly well bogged down, having slipped off the track to the right. I managed to get down to it OK and was able to turn around. After hitching a tow strop to it and giving it a good pull, it was fairly obvious that it wasn't going to move. The next problem was how to get out again. That hill in front of the Disco doesn't look like much, but it was just the first half of the climb which at times raised to almost 45 degrees with a frightening drop which seemed to suck you towards it on the left side. I did tell the OP that a tractor or a Unimogg was the sort of thing he needed really.
The top of the hill in the picture was just about half way up. I managed to get up the hill for a short way by using some of the vegitation under the wheels for a bit more grip but even that became impossible.
Alan managed to get to the top of the hill and winch me up towards him in his very well appointed Defender, but as he started to reverse back up the hill with the winch free-spooling, his wheels started spinning too. the result was he couldn't go any further up and there was no way I was going to reverse back down the hill which might well have resulted in both of us being stuck at the bottom. The only way was a winch to pull him up the hill and then he could winch my Disco up then. This we were able to do once a friend of Alan's turned up, but even that operation was fraught with hazards. Being unable to distinguish the track fro the rest of the mountain, Alan reversed a bit too close to the edge and started to drop of the track, at which point ground anchors and snatch blocks were called for.
We finally got back up to a point where Alan could turn around to face the right way, as he said to me on the radio, he was feeling much happier once that point had been reached.
One the rest of the way down the mountain which was even then pretty hairy I was able to continue giving the OP a continual b0llocking about his actions causing two of us to get stuck and needing yet a third vehicle equipped with a winch.
Dipps mentioned that even a twisted ankle can be life threatening in those places, well, yes I did get out of the Disco to answer a call of nature, slipped and over I went, twisted the afforementioned ankle as I did. And it was the left (clutch) foot too. Then when I got home, as I got out of the Disco, I realised that I couldn't take any weight on the damned thing and over I went again, but I dealt with that in an earlier post.
Still everybody got off the mountain safely. Would I have gone there on my own for no other reason than to see what a vehicle could do? Absolutely no way it was a totally stupid situation from the start.
Thanks to Alan and his mates for all their help during this rescue.

View attachment 137962

View attachment 137963

View attachment 137964
Click to expand...
Good effort.
 
brian47 said:
Here are some of more pics of the situation last night.
Weather wise, we all got off the mountain just before it started to rain quite heavily. The ground was sodden with as someone else had said very wet vegitation on scree and clay. Very slippery underfoot. The wetness was due not only to the rain and mists but also to meltwater which for some reason I still don't fully understand always seems to be "wetter" than ordinary rainwater.
As you can see from the pictures the CR-V was fairly well bogged down, having slipped off the track to the right. I managed to get down to it OK and was able to turn around. After hitching a tow strop to it and giving it a good pull, it was fairly obvious that it wasn't going to move. The next problem was how to get out again. That hill in front of the Disco doesn't look like much, but it was just the first half of the climb which at times raised to almost 45 degrees with a frightening drop which seemed to suck you towards it on the left side. I did tell the OP that a tractor or a Unimogg was the sort of thing he needed really.
The top of the hill in the picture was just about half way up. I managed to get up the hill for a short way by using some of the vegitation under the wheels for a bit more grip but even that became impossible.
Alan managed to get to the top of the hill and winch me up towards him in his very well appointed Defender, but as he started to reverse back up the hill with the winch free-spooling, his wheels started spinning too. the result was he couldn't go any further up and there was no way I was going to reverse back down the hill which might well have resulted in both of us being stuck at the bottom. The only way was a winch to pull him up the hill and then he could winch my Disco up then. This we were able to do once a friend of Alan's turned up, but even that operation was fraught with hazards. Being unable to distinguish the track fro the rest of the mountain, Alan reversed a bit too close to the edge and started to drop of the track, at which point ground anchors and snatch blocks were called for.
We finally got back up to a point where Alan could turn around to face the right way, as he said to me on the radio, he was feeling much happier once that point had been reached.
One the rest of the way down the mountain which was even then pretty hairy I was able to continue giving the OP a continual b0llocking about his actions causing two of us to get stuck and needing yet a third vehicle equipped with a winch.
Dipps mentioned that even a twisted ankle can be life threatening in those places, well, yes I did get out of the Disco to answer a call of nature, slipped and over I went, twisted the afforementioned ankle as I did. And it was the left (clutch) foot too. Then when I got home, as I got out of the Disco, I realised that I couldn't take any weight on the damned thing and over I went again, but I dealt with that in an earlier post.
Still everybody got off the mountain safely. Would I have gone there on my own for no other reason than to see what a vehicle could do? Absolutely no way it was a totally stupid situation from the start.
Thanks to Alan and his mates for all their help during this rescue.

View attachment 137962

View attachment 137963

View attachment 137964
Click to expand...

Pleased you got out OK and undamaged, Brian. And equally pleased that you told the OP where to get off!

That SUV is pretty close to going right over, and will do if he spins the wheels and digs it in any more.

Probably needs jacking up, and stones or waffle boards under the downhill wheels, followed by a steady pull from a heavy winch vehicle.
 
Turboman said:
Pleased you got out OK and undamaged, Brian. And equally pleased that you told the OP where to get off!

That SUV is pretty close to going right over, and will do if he spins the wheels and digs it in any more.

Probably needs jacking up, and stones or waffle boards under the downhill wheels, followed by a steady pull from a heavy winch vehicle.
Click to expand...
I'd say that when I looked at the CR-V, the downside wheels weren't actually on anything solid, the car honestly looked like it had grounded on the underside. I've already called the OP up in heaps over the stupidity of the situation already, I won't say much more than that.
 
brian47 said:
I'd say that when I looked at the CR-V, the downside wheels weren't actually on anything solid, the car honestly looked like it had grounded on the underside. I've already called the OP up in heaps over the stupidity of the situation already, I won't say much more than that.
Click to expand...

That sort of peaty ground is very soft when waterlogged. Waffle boards help spread the load, but jacking can be tricky with the vehicle so far down already. Often causes bodywork damage.

I think you are right, the thing is pretty much bellied out on the edge of the track.

It may become a permanent memorial to his stupidity! :eek::D

Sorry I didn't see the thread earlier. I would have suggested that no-one risk their vehicles going up there.
 
The Mad Hat Man said:
That is because you have always been against LZIR and never think that anyone else is capable or experienced enough.
As I said before..... helpful suggestions are welcome. Nit picking and point scoring is not.
Individuals are more than capable of making that decision themselves.
Click to expand...
thats untrue and hardly helps anything,and you wonder that lz has so much bickering when you stoop to uncalled for name calling,
im making a serious point,its one thing aiding a break down or at the side of the road ,another such as this and that recent stuck down a snowy lane,
 
goonarmy said:
No not an exaggeration at all. An injury is an injury, regardless of pre-existing conditions. This is a fair and reasonable summary. Permission or not you still got to wonder what they were doing there in that motor. I weren't bothered about the OP, but it starts to become a worry when established memebers off here get into trouble. Is this not a situation where the local farmer should have been contacted in the first place? Seing as its presumably farmland the farmer would be expected to have or know (and did) someone with suitable gear to get them out. This is not a criticism of LZIR, but the system is being abused.
Your disappointment in local members not reply is VERY open to criticism, remember no one on this list works here. I'll leave that at that. In summary it appears we are getting the p**s taken out of us with people literally risking a lot to help strangers. Maybe im speaking out of term, I'm delibeately not in the list but did seriously consider the drive (mainly cos I'm bored) but not for the OP, for the LZ members in trouble.
Click to expand...
i have to say thats a very good post
 
I have been watching this, and was pleased to see other LZ members prepared to help..... until I saw the first picture of the CR-V... It was obvious to me at that point that, as others have said, it needs a much heavier recovery vehicle.

I am also relieved that everyone survived, but do agree that "even" a twisted ankle can be life threatening.

So, as a future requirement for LZIR, I suggest a picture of the stuck vehicle AND a wider angle shot of the location would be a good requirement - and whilst appreciate the potential issues with signal etc, I suggest this as it might have saved some issues in this case...
 
Disco1BFG said:
I have been watching this, and was pleased to see other LZ members prepared to help..... until I saw the first picture of the CR-V... It was obvious to me at that point that, as others have said, it needs a much heavier recovery vehicle.

I am also relieved that everyone survived, but do agree that "even" a twisted ankle can be life threatening.

So, as a future requirement for LZIR, I suggest a picture of the stuck vehicle AND a wider angle shot of the location would be a good requirement - and whilst appreciate the potential issues with signal etc, I suggest this as it might have saved some issues in this case...
Click to expand...

Pics before action in difficult off road situations is a good policy.

It is fine for members to help people who have broken down at the roadside, or in gentle laneing situations.

But terrain like that is a job for the very experienced, with the right clothing and equipment.
 
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