B

bigandgreedy

New Member
I have P38 diesel which has oil leak from timing cover stripped sump and front timing cover off got new sump gasket and timing cover gasket but can i put bead of silcone were it buts upto headgasket as really dont fancy stripping head off.
also noticed cam timing out amazed how it run only link or 2 out on chain but deffo out as pin in crank bright copper links lined up but cam timing tool not siiting in right as timing out
 
bigandgreedy said:
I have P38 diesel which has oil leak from timing cover stripped sump and front timing cover off got new sump gasket and timing cover gasket but can i put bead of silcone were it buts upto headgasket as really dont fancy stripping head off.
also noticed cam timing out amazed how it run only link or 2 out on chain but deffo out as pin in crank bright copper links lined up but cam timing tool not siiting in right as timing out
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Chain is stretched, see RAVE and re time cam as outlined in there using the feeler gauge. Silicone gasket will do but better with Hylomar.
 
Wammers, this just a thought its a long long time ago since I had dealings with chains or gears for timing but seem to remember having to turn engine over 30 something times to get marks to line up again, could it be some thing along those lines ?
 
kds said:
Wammers, this just a thought its a long long time ago since I had dealings with chains or gears for timing but seem to remember having to turn engine over 30 something times to get marks to line up again, could it be some thing along those lines ?
Click to expand...

Engine MUST be locked at TDC with locking pin. Follow RAVE for how to do this. Bright links should then be lined up with marks on sprockets. But that does not mean pump timing and cam timing are correct. If chain is stretched the bright links will be further apart. Hence cam locator not sitting correctly. Initial cam timing with new chains set by locator tool allows for chain stretch. If you use new chains it should sit flush on head, if you time cam with old chains a feeler gauge is used (4.61mm) to allow for chain stretch under locating tool at inlet side of head. If you have timing cover off it is false economy NOT to change chains and check sprockets/tensioners. A couple of hundred quid now is a lot cheaper than what will be needed if a chain parts.:):)
 
full link is alot to be out i think previous owner has had it to bits at some stage looking at it and various markings indicate its been apart before aswell so going to set all up following rave see how it goes
 
bigandgreedy said:
full link is alot to be out i think previous owner has had it to bits at some stage looking at it and various markings indicate its been apart before aswell so going to set all up following rave see how it goes
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Check the chains, bottom one is usually not as bad as the top one that runs one to one driving camshaft. Did mine last year they looked ok until they were removed, cam chain had serious 1.5 mm toothache on just a couple of links all the rest were fine. Bottom chain was ok but changed anyway.
 
Pity you're not closer. I've still not had the nerve to pull mine apart and check in case I stuff it!
 
bigandgreedy said:
full link is alot to be out i think previous owner has had it to bits at some stage looking at it and various markings indicate its been apart before aswell so going to set all up following rave see how it goes
Click to expand...

That would only effect pump timing, depending on which way it is out it may not be possible to set pump up correctly as pump has limited movement. It does not effect cam timing, that is done separately with engine locked at TDC. Unless of course you at some stage have turned the engine anticlockwise and the crank sprocket is worn and has jumped a tooth putting the lot out. Apart from a little jockeying to find the crank pin hole NEVER turn the engine anticlockwise.
 
Hi. I realize this is an old thread but I am about to remove a buggered fip sprocket so Im looking at the same job.
kapilamuni said:
How did you remove the front cover without taking the head out?

Pls explain.

regds
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Im going to assume that the sump was dropped looking at the manuals that seems to be the only option if not removing the head. Im not sure how you would reseal the front cover against the bottom of the head doing this though. Keep in mind the locating pins for the front cover, you will have to slide the cover under the head thus removing any rtv etc that you are trying to use.
I am of two minds on how to do this myself. seems ridiculous to remove the head to get the fip sprocket out considering that my compression is good. In all my years I havent seen this before. Im most likely going to take the head off anyway. If you are this deep in an engine, best to lap valves, r&r valve seals, do tensioners etc. LOL looks like i made up my mind! :D
 
Clock guy said:
Hi. I realize this is an old thread but I am about to remove a buggered fip sprocket so Im looking at the same job.


Im going to assume that the sump was dropped looking at the manuals that seems to be the only option if not removing the head. Im not sure how you would reseal the front cover against the bottom of the head doing this though. Keep in mind the locating pins for the front cover, you will have to slide the cover under the head thus removing any rtv etc that you are trying to use.
I am of two minds on how to do this myself. seems ridiculous to remove the head to get the fip sprocket out considering that my compression is good. In all my years I havent seen this before. Im most likely going to take the head off anyway. If you are this deep in an engine, best to lap valves, r&r valve seals, do tensioners etc. LOL looks like i made up my mind! :D
Click to expand...

Not tried but you might get away with using Hylomar. Best check with @wammers first though.
 
kds said:
Wammers, this just a thought its a long long time ago since I had dealings with chains or gears for timing but seem to remember having to turn engine over 30 something times to get marks to line up again, could it be some thing along those lines ?
Click to expand...
Bloody hell that's s blast from the past, remember doing a Perkins 4108 and that was true
 
kds said:
You aint kidding and the last one I did was a Perkins 4236 !
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All cylinders fire every two revolutions so the engine only needs turning a maximum of two revolutions to align timing marks. ;)
 
wammers said:
All cylinders fire every two revolutions so the engine only needs turning a maximum of two revolutions to align timing marks. ;)
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From memory,and we know how unreliable that can be, on the Perkins there is an idler gear with three timing marks on it. It is driven by the crank gear and it drives the cam and injector pump gears. Once set up it takes 30+,I'm not sure exactly how many but I think 32, revolutions for all timing marks to be in alignment again.
 
tomcat59alan said:
From memory,and we know how unreliable that can be, on the Perkins there is an idler gear with three timing marks on it. It is driven by the crank gear and it drives the cam and injector pump gears. Once set up it takes 30+,I'm not sure exactly how many but I think 32, revolutions for all timing marks to be in alignment again.
Click to expand...

Don't know about that, but every cylinder on a four stroke engine fires once every two revolutions. Two revolutions = 720 degrees, so all you do is divide the number of cylinders the engine has into 720. So on a four cylinder engine a cylinder fires every 180 degrees. A six cylinder engine fires a cylinder every 120 degrees and an eight cylinder engine fires a cylinder every 90 degrees of rotation. ;)
 
Engines like the Perkins, Bedford 220/330/381 and 466 all had intermediate gears twixt crankshaft and camshaft/pump. While indeed the components came in sync every two turns, the timing marks took quite a few turns to come round and line up.

Applies to other engines too, but those and Scania were my main workpieces.

Peter
 
Last edited:
listerdiesel said:
Engines like the Perkins, Bedford 220/330/381 and 466 all had intermediate gears twixt crankshaft and camshaft/pump. While indeed the components came in sync every two turns, the timing marks took quite a few turns to come round and line up.

Applies to other engines too, but those and Scania were my main workpieces.

Peter
Click to expand...
Agreed,guess it depends how many teeth between the timing marks on the idler gear whereas the pump crank and cam remain in sync every two turns but you wouldn't know until the appropriate number of revolutions have been achieved.
 
We had the figure available to us as 'factory' mechanics, but the guy in the street wouldn't know without asking a dealer.

As far as Bedford engines went, it was just as quick to pull the intermediate gear out and retime the engine.

Peter
 
listerdiesel said:
We had the figure available to us as 'factory' mechanics, but the guy in the street wouldn't know without asking a dealer.

As far as Bedford engines went, it was just as quick to pull the intermediate gear out and retime the engine.

Peter
Click to expand...
The more I think about it the number 32 comes to mind which if you include the first static timed then it would be 33 revolutions in total to bring the timing marks back in to alignment.
 
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