Hi Tricky,
I realise this is an old thread but it sounds similar in ways to what I've suddenly started experiencing.
I have a 56 plate (2007MY) 4.2 FFRR, which as of yesterday, after a symptom free drive to lunch, wouldn't crank 20 minutes later. The key unlocks the car, the steering column, everything inside the car works as it should and there are no warnings on the dash until you turn off the key after trying to crank it over. At which point you get the usual Christmas tree effect, with "park brake failure", "transmission failure", "reduced traction" warnings and all the rest...
When I remove the key entirely from the cluster the warnings stay on for 30 seconds or so which I find strange, as taking the key out of the barrel usually kills the power to the cluster.
Anyway, I've checked every fuse I can in the car, unless there are some hidden! I found 3 blown fuses, replaced them but they were all to do with unrelated things. I also tested the starter relay in the engine compartment fuse box and it's working fine. When I try to crank the car, even the starter solenoid doesnt click - so my next job is to try and get a 12V feed directly on to that.
The main thing I've found so far that seems strange, is that when I put the multimeter on to the starter side of the relay circuit, there seems to constantly be 3.5-4V there, and when I put the key to the crank position, it only increased by 0.5-1V. Do you think this could possibly be a short inside the starter motor assembly itself? I would have expected 0V to show there until the switch is in crank position and then a good 12V input when it is trying to crank. Seems strange but I could be barking up the wrong tree.
Thanks!
 
pumpkinboy1991 said:
Hi Tricky,
I realise this is an old thread but it sounds similar in ways to what I've suddenly started experiencing.
I have a 56 plate (2007MY) 4.2 FFRR, which as of yesterday, after a symptom free drive to lunch, wouldn't crank 20 minutes later. The key unlocks the car, the steering column, everything inside the car works as it should and there are no warnings on the dash until you turn off the key after trying to crank it over. At which point you get the usual Christmas tree effect, with "park brake failure", "transmission failure", "reduced traction" warnings and all the rest...
When I remove the key entirely from the cluster the warnings stay on for 30 seconds or so which I find strange, as taking the key out of the barrel usually kills the power to the cluster.
Anyway, I've checked every fuse I can in the car, unless there are some hidden! I found 3 blown fuses, replaced them but they were all to do with unrelated things. I also tested the starter relay in the engine compartment fuse box and it's working fine. When I try to crank the car, even the starter solenoid doesnt click - so my next job is to try and get a 12V feed directly on to that.
The main thing I've found so far that seems strange, is that when I put the multimeter on to the starter side of the relay circuit, there seems to constantly be 3.5-4V there, and when I put the key to the crank position, it only increased by 0.5-1V. Do you think this could possibly be a short inside the starter motor assembly itself? I would have expected 0V to show there until the switch is in crank position and then a good 12V input when it is trying to crank. Seems strange but I could be barking up the wrong tree.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
What voltage do you have at the battery?
 
Yeah I suspected battery initially too but unfortunately doesnt seem to be the cause. Getting ~12.4V at the battery which I dont think is too bad. Left it on charge overnight, with the negative disconnected from the car to let everything drain fully & tried to start it today with the battery reading 13.4V. Unfortunately I dont have a decent fault code reader for the car so cant get much info from that. Think it could well be a bad earth but not sure where I best to get a useful copy of all the earth locations on the car. Used to have rave for my previous 2002-2005 model which was great with regards to showing pictures etc of all the earths but the 2007-2012 workshop manual I've got doesnt seem to be quite as detailed.
 
Have you checked the actual ignition switch connections?

Back in the day, the likes of the Citroën Saxo and the equivalent Peugeot 106 were famous for losing power steering and fan heater (as well as heated rear window and other big draw equipment) all because the feed went through the ignition switch and part of it would over heat to the point where part of the connection plug would melt and distort.

Its just a thought :cool:
 
pumpkinboy1991 said:
Yeah I suspected battery initially too but unfortunately doesnt seem to be the cause. Getting ~12.4V at the battery which I dont think is too bad. Left it on charge overnight, with the negative disconnected from the car to let everything drain fully & tried to start it today with the battery reading 13.4V. Unfortunately I dont have a decent fault code reader for the car so cant get much info from that. Think it could well be a bad earth but not sure where I best to get a useful copy of all the earth locations on the car. Used to have rave for my previous 2002-2005 model which was great with regards to showing pictures etc of all the earths but the 2007-2012 workshop manual I've got doesnt seem to be quite as detailed.
Click to expand...
the main earth points to check are engine and fuse boxes.
 
Last edited:
Try another battery?
12.4v isn't massive and you could have a dead cell meaning possibly no oomph in it!o_O;)
 
Hi there thought I jump in and say Hi! Don’t know where your up to on this but as mentioned previously it would be very helpful to get some LR specific diagnosis kit attached to your car. Although they are about £400 they pay for themselves very quickly. They will produce codes and clues that will allow the guys and ladies on here to guide you to the next step. I believe you need to break the cycle of handing it over to the garage. If you can strip the ignition lock you can do most things with a little help from your forum friends.
Cheers
Rich
 
Newinnwoodman said:
Hi there thought I jump in and say Hi! Don’t know where your up to on this but as mentioned previously it would be very helpful to get some LR specific diagnosis kit attached to your car. Although they are about £400 they pay for themselves very quickly. They will produce codes and clues that will allow the guys and ladies on here to guide you to the next step. I believe you need to break the cycle of handing it over to the garage. If you can strip the ignition lock you can do most things with a little help from your forum friends.
Cheers
Rich
Click to expand...
Without being offensive, I am amazed at how many times people say "buy diagnostics, they only cost hundreds of pounds".
Even, though someone may own a Range Rover, many do it on a budget. Mainly because there are so many 'cheap' ones out there now. This means someone who may previously have bought a 10 year old Volvo, Renault, some other make, instead buy a 16/17 year old Range Rover. Which in turn means they are still working with another marque money and don't have hundreds of pounds to lay out on diagnostics.
Which leads to another point : not everyone is able or happy to play about with diagnostics on their veh. Just because some of us are computer literate and able to work out which button does what, and how to put it back, when we screw up, doesn't mean all are.
There is also so the, 'well I now know what the problem is, but it'll still have to go to a garage' effect. I've had the Golden Girl 9years, even with the issues she has had, taking into account how many times diagnostics would have resolved the issue, without then having to take her to a garage, I would only just be recovering my money, had I laid out for diagnostics
As an alternative, to laying out hundreds of pounds, @pumpkinboy1991 ( and others) may I suggest you call in a local, friendly, auto-electrician, or, if you can find one, a local member of this site, and get their diagnostics on it. Then you can not only get your codes, you can have a look at the system and decide if you want to buy, or start saving for your own.
.
 
All suggestions so far are valid and helpful! I only encountered this problem on Friday at work and alongside a fairly jammed weekend of other things I have so far done the following:
  1. Charged the battery overnight, with the car disconnected entirely from the battery whilst doing so & re-trying
  2. Tried to jump start the car from another car with a hefty charging/battery supply showing 13.5V at the RR battery terminals.
  3. Tested every fuse I can find in the engine bay fuse box, glove box fuse box and rear loadspace fusebox.
  4. Tested the starter motor relay on the bench - switch clicks over without issue.
  5. Very briefly tested the voltages that are seen at the starter motor relay - but I'm going to re-test this a bit more thoroughly.
  6. Generic OBDII fault code reader found no faults whatsoever with the car, but I'm quite certain if I had some land rover specific equipment I would see some codes.
  7. Cleaned up obvious earth points I can see in the engine bay, but not got as far as engine to chassis earth straps yet.
I do own RSW all comms which I purchased for my previous 2002 4.4 V8, but as far as I'm aware that only covers up to 2005 models, so I am familiar with diagnostics and capable of using them, but with this car which I've owned since July last year, I haven't had a single issue with it which as far as I'm concerned is quite amazing for a Land Rover lol!! It was only a matter of time... So yes I would consider purchasing some diagnostics to help but equally having had the older range rover before, I am aware that fault codes can lead you down the wrong track as they are often consequential to something unrelated. I'm lucky in that I have a workshop for my toys (boats/hovercraft/discovery 1 rebuild) so I have the space to work on the car in there before I have to give in and send it to a specialist, but hopefully it doesn't come to that.

I live in the Inverclyde area of Scotland so if anyone lives near me that would be willing to stick some useful equipment on it I would be very grateful and would provide some beer money in return! That said, I am open to the idea of buying some diagnostics for it if someone can recommend a reasonable quality system that can interact with as many of the modules as possible.

I'm going up to the workshop tonight after work and my current plan of attack is:
  1. Test starter motor by getting 12V directly on to it.
  2. Test the voltages a bit more thoroughly that are being seen at the starter motor relay.
  3. Remove the ignition barrel and do some testing.
Will probably be up most evenings this week to think of new things to try and test out any more suggestions thrown my way. Once again thanks for all of the help so far and I will update when I get some more testing done.
 
Doo said:
Have you checked the actual ignition switch connections?

Back in the day, the likes of the Citroën Saxo and the equivalent Peugeot 106 were famous for losing power steering and fan heater (as well as heated rear window and other big draw equipment) all because the feed went through the ignition switch and part of it would over heat to the point where part of the connection plug would melt and distort.

Its just a thought :cool:
Click to expand...
If PSA [edited] buy JLR I am sure we can expect a lot more of the same ;)
 
Last edited:
I've got gap iid tool for mine. Handy as it's just a Bluetooth dongle and software on your phone so lives in the car at all times.
Unfortunately, I think most of the diag for the later l322's are vín locked so unlikely anyone will be able to plug you in unless they have the really high end stuff with multi vín licence.
As to you problem, I'd be trying a jump lead from body to engine to simulate the earth straps and see if it make any difference.
 
So, the culprit has been found - same issue that solved tricky!! This strap is located on the driver's side of the car, just inside the wheel arch liner (and further forward than where the starter motor is located). Definitely worth checking for anyone else who has electrical issues, as it looks like a design flaw, where the strap has been chafed by a piece of subframe & eventually did a bit of welding! Quite serious really when you consider the current required to melt that strap, which is the best part of an inch thick. Thanks for all the advice folks!

20190625_200337.jpg
20190625_220733.jpg
 
pumpkinboy1991 said:
So, the culprit has been found - same issue that solved tricky!! This strap is located on the driver's side of the car, just inside the wheel arch liner (and further forward than where the starter motor is located). Definitely worth checking for anyone else who has electrical issues, as it looks like a design flaw, where the strap has been chafed by a piece of subframe & eventually did a bit of welding! Quite serious really when you consider the current required to melt that strap, which is the best part of an inch thick. Thanks for all the advice folks!

View attachment 182293 View attachment 182294
Click to expand...

Not sure if that is the earth that caused me a problem a couple of years ago, (post is somewhere in the threads). Didn't have time to go searching for which earth was causing the problem, as was loaded to head to London. So nice AA guy, just put a new engine earth on , and hey presto, all was good in the world :)
 
Hello everyone!
I'm James, this is my first time posting~long time listener.
I have just had the same experience with my 56 plate RR 4.2 l322, I am very eager to get back and go through these check lists.
I drove 30 minutes to a job, did the job an hour and half later, unlocked, popped key in, turned and gave it a second then...nothing. no noises, no warnings, no joy. I have checked all the fuses and all ok, no sign of water anywhere~yet. Battery was reading 11.9 which I wasn't sure was enough but only from what I've gleaned from here. A friend came to try and jump start her, to no avail.
I will definitely check the earth straps after reading Tricky and Pumpkinboys plights.
Should I grab a new battery or will it be possible to resurrect this one? It's good Friday and bank holiday on top of corona so it might sit there a few days before I can get a battery. But hey ho.

Jk
 
Its_ok_im_jk said:
Hello everyone!
I'm James, this is my first time posting~long time listener.
I have just had the same experience with my 56 plate RR 4.2 l322, I am very eager to get back and go through these check lists.
I drove 30 minutes to a job, did the job an hour and half later, unlocked, popped key in, turned and gave it a second then...nothing. no noises, no warnings, no joy. I have checked all the fuses and all ok, no sign of water anywhere~yet. Battery was reading 11.9 which I wasn't sure was enough but only from what I've gleaned from here. A friend came to try and jump start her, to no avail.
I will definitely check the earth straps after reading Tricky and Pumpkinboys plights.
Should I grab a new battery or will it be possible to resurrect this one? It's good Friday and bank holiday on top of corona so it might sit there a few days before I can get a battery. But hey ho.

Jk
Click to expand...
11.9 volts is a dead battery, they can just die instantly.
Battery Megastore will deliver you a new battery next working day at a better price than Halfrauds. I can recommend Hankook I have 5 of their batteries and they have proved to be very good. Go for the biggest amp hour/CCA that will fit, MF31-1000 if it will go in but you would need to check.
 
Hi JK
Welcome. I hate to see a guy suffer so I thought I’d say hi and see if I can help.
Can you clarify if you have any of the normal lamps in the dashboard when you turn the key?
Can you confirm the steering lock releases when you turn the key?
Can you monitor/ record the battery voltage when the key is put to the cranking position.
Are you able to get to the starter motor safely?
cheers
Rich
 
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