I'd like to re-awaken this thread, if I may...
I'm looking for another vehicle and whilst head says an M Class Mercedes (sorry), heart says another Range Rover.
The budget would stretch to a cheap, early L322, or a nice, late P38.
My simple question is, could either of them be relied upon in harsh conditions?
I had a 4.0SE P38 and it drove me crazy, finally locking me out of the car when parked on a double yellow line (where it stayed until I obtained some bizarre code from the supplying dealer).
Are things any better? The vehicle would be diesel.
I'm looking for another vehicle and whilst head says an M Class Mercedes (sorry), heart says another Range Rover.
The budget would stretch to a cheap, early L322, or a nice, late P38.
My simple question is, could either of them be relied upon in harsh conditions?
I had a 4.0SE P38 and it drove me crazy, finally locking me out of the car when parked on a double yellow line (where it stayed until I obtained some bizarre code from the supplying dealer).
Are things any better? The vehicle would be diesel.
2.0_hippo
Well-Known Member
better in my opinion.
they have solved the problems of the p38 but have also developed new problems.
other than gearbox failure there mostly smallish electrical problems
Still worth all their hassel and costs !
i have a l322 3.0 td6 and i love it !
Minor electrical gremlins I can live with, but there are some scary stories about front props, diffs etc on the L322 which weren't in the P38 fault list.
The P38 always struck me as an excellent car, ruined by poor electronics.
I'm not sure that there aren't more mechanical issues with the L322 - steering columns, for example.
But, there are L322's out there with 150,000 miles on them - surely they can't have been in the garage every week?
The P38 always struck me as an excellent car, ruined by poor electronics.
I'm not sure that there aren't more mechanical issues with the L322 - steering columns, for example.
But, there are L322's out there with 150,000 miles on them - surely they can't have been in the garage every week?
2.0_hippo
Well-Known Member
indeed.
there was a prop recall when they were first released.
mines hit 136,000 now and still chugging on
if serviced well they are fine. some people are just unlucky i think and it depends on how you look after them.
for example if you drive like an idiot then the gearbox is sure to fail quickly.
im still learning about range rovers since iv only had mine 8 weeks now
there was a prop recall when they were first released.
mines hit 136,000 now and still chugging on
if serviced well they are fine. some people are just unlucky i think and it depends on how you look after them.
for example if you drive like an idiot then the gearbox is sure to fail quickly.
im still learning about range rovers since iv only had mine 8 weeks now
Well, I think this would be Land Rover number nine, Range Rover number six...
Mine have to work for a living; pull 3 tonnes, cross the Sahara in 52 degrees C, and run up huge mileages. My Discovery reached 240,000 miles and I've a Defender with over 200,000 on it.
I'm just not convinced (yet) that the L322 is up to this kind of treatment, but I know a P38 probably could be - particularly a diesel manual on coils.
But I'd love a L322 - and it might stop me lusting after my much missed Turbo R.
Mine have to work for a living; pull 3 tonnes, cross the Sahara in 52 degrees C, and run up huge mileages. My Discovery reached 240,000 miles and I've a Defender with over 200,000 on it.
I'm just not convinced (yet) that the L322 is up to this kind of treatment, but I know a P38 probably could be - particularly a diesel manual on coils.
But I'd love a L322 - and it might stop me lusting after my much missed Turbo R.
rasheed
Well-Known Member
Short answer is L322 is better. Post 2005 most of the early edition problems were ironed out. But P38 (to me) has more personality and is better looking. Someone commented on the rear lights of the L322 and I totally agree, they make the car look cheap and later face-lifts gave it a weak chin to boot. The pseudo angular look trying to recall a design masterpiece like the RR Classic also doesn't quite work for me. Lets put it this way, first P38 I ever saw I thought it was gorgeous, just so sophisticated looking. And it hasn't aged. First L322 I saw I thought it was abominable, something made specifically for newly minted Eastern European moguls or American rappers however I must admit that over time it has grown on me next to the ridiculous looking Lexii and GLKs and so forth.
FWIW I still own a P38 but had a brand new L322 from work for a couple of years. Definitely the L322 was a better place to be inside of but if anything went wrong you never dared to have a poke and try to fix it while with the P38 you can.
FWIW I still own a P38 but had a brand new L322 from work for a couple of years. Definitely the L322 was a better place to be inside of but if anything went wrong you never dared to have a poke and try to fix it while with the P38 you can.
Hmmm... beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The P38 has grown on me (possibly as the Metrocab has died out), but the L322 to me just looks amazing. Each to their own.
The front diff thing seems to have been cured by a recall?
Is there anything else likely to grind the beast to a halt?
The front diff thing seems to have been cured by a recall?
Is there anything else likely to grind the beast to a halt?
rasheed
Well-Known Member
Datatek
Well-Known Member
The autobox is fragile on the early L322, I doubt it would last 30K miles in the Sahara pulling 3 tonnes. M Class Mercs are not known for their reliability either
IMO a late P38 on Arnott airsprings is the best buy. A much easier car to fix than the L322
Interesting that you'd option for Arnott air springs over a coil conversion... The air suspension is great, but I hate being dependant on an electric pump.
The old ZF auto used to be the most reliable part of a RR! What went wrong!?
The M Class is unreliable by Merc standards, but the problems aren't of the strand you in the middle of nowhere type. Poor panel fit and the odd leak I've become used to!
The old ZF auto used to be the most reliable part of a RR! What went wrong!?
The M Class is unreliable by Merc standards, but the problems aren't of the strand you in the middle of nowhere type. Poor panel fit and the odd leak I've become used to!
362bkr
Active Member
I totally agee with all you say.
Datatek
Well-Known Member
For emergencies, buy or make up 4 Schrader valves to go on the pipes at the valve block and buy a 12 volt tyre inflator. You can get a 12 volt high volume 200 PSI compressor for less than £20
Thats good advice, Datatek, though things like split airbags, airlines, valves etc are a worry too.
I did like the air suspension on the 4.0SE and it was the best tow car ever. But reliability is everything and I don't much enjoy being underneath cars - especially when it's hot and dusty!
Other than the loss of height control there's not much that air springs do that coils don't do, and there's none of the complexity.
I did like the air suspension on the 4.0SE and it was the best tow car ever. But reliability is everything and I don't much enjoy being underneath cars - especially when it's hot and dusty!
Other than the loss of height control there's not much that air springs do that coils don't do, and there's none of the complexity.
362bkr
Active Member
And coils are much better if you want to roll your p38
Datatek
Well-Known Member
Really?
The P38 is pretty wide. Instinct says it's centre of gravity would be lower than a RR Classic, and certainly lower than a Discovery.
Incidentally, a Routemaster bus does without air springs, and they are pretty hard to roll.
In fact, with the air springs set to resist roll, there's little warning that you are approaching the limits of the tyres grip - just the circumstances when a slide will see you clip a kerb and initiate a roll.
Ask any early Range Rover or 2CV driver...
So airbags can split, coils can break, give me air any time
But you can drive on a broken coil - and the insensitive among us might never notice the difference.
Just checked the mileage on my Defender. It's done 12,000km (7,500 miles) over the last two months, and a fair proportion of that off road, sometimes in places where recovery consists of chaining two tractors together, letting their tyres down to 10psi, and caterpillar crawling out through the dunes, other places where you'd be 100 miles from the nearest tarmac, and maybe 300 miles from the nearest dealer.
362bkr
Active Member
Have never seen a routemaster bus doing 80 mph up the motorway nor have i seen many being off roaded.:laugh:
