neilly · Oct 13, 2013

I know a local builder had an L200 for two weeks , hated it, went back to a 90,
now that jeep ( cough cough ) looks nice, you have to ask why JLR could not produce something like that??

Of course the biggest thing is, over 2 million land rovers produced , they reckon 75% still on the road, no commercial company can work like that nowadays , SADLY.

is the defender now a thing of love for the people that own them? I know mine is.. to make a sellable product it has to achieve so much more than what we will accept as Landie owners. sad but true.

I would just like to know why it is being axed because of emissions, how difficult is it to fix this problem? sounds to me like an accountant has looked at it,

Thor1950 · Oct 13, 2013

GINGE said:
Id have one, if you could get it over here( and they stopped producing the defender)

ARB's as a factory fit. Yes ####ing please.

where are those made at? what country

Thor1950 · Oct 13, 2013

GINGE said:
I think jeep should bring out there forward control in the UK:

Found it pubs............

The other concept is the one everybody will be talking about out on the trails of Moab during the Safari. The Jeep Mighty FC Concept digs up the Forward Control truck idea from the company's days under Willy's. This monster started off as a two-door Wrangler in December, now it's been chopped up, lengthened, lifted, and totally re-imagined. The cabin's nose was lopped off, the back of the Wrangler pickup kit encloses the rear, and all-new doors were fabricated along with a long bed which conceals the spare tire, fuel tank, and suspension pieces, there's a little bit of storage along the top side of it. The drivetrain is stock Wrangler - 3.6- liter Pentastar V6 with about 285 hp, but now it's under the seats as is the front axle. That axle's also been modified with portal axle ends, a kit from Mopar which bolts to the end of a stock solid axle and offset's the wheels from the center of the axle. The result - more ground clearance with a less extreme suspension. Giant 39" tires and a huge heavy duty bumper with a winch finish out the look. This thing isn't just a pretty face either, the Jeep crew plans to wheel it in the off-road playgrounds of Utah in April so they've fitted it with a roll cage just in case coming down hills doesn't go well for the nose-heavy behemouth.

Read more: Jeep Forward Control Concept - Jeep J-12 Concept - Popular Mechanics
Follow us: @PopMech on Twitter | popularmechanics on Facebook
Visit us at PopularMechanics.com

jamesmartin · Oct 13, 2013

Thor1950 said:
Found it pubs............

The other concept is the one everybody will be talking about out on the trails of Moab during the Safari. The Jeep Mighty FC Concept digs up the Forward Control truck idea from the company's days under Willy's. This monster started off as a two-door Wrangler in December, now it's been chopped up, lengthened, lifted, and totally re-imagined. The cabin's nose was lopped off, the back of the Wrangler pickup kit encloses the rear, and all-new doors were fabricated along with a long bed which conceals the spare tire, fuel tank, and suspension pieces, there's a little bit of storage along the top side of it. The drivetrain is stock Wrangler - 3.6- liter Pentastar V6 with about 285 hp, but now it's under the seats as is the front axle. That axle's also been modified with portal axle ends, a kit from Mopar which bolts to the end of a stock solid axle and offset's the wheels from the center of the axle. The result - more ground clearance with a less extreme suspension. Giant 39" tires and a huge heavy duty bumper with a winch finish out the look. This thing isn't just a pretty face either, the Jeep crew plans to wheel it in the off-road playgrounds of Utah in April so they've fitted it with a roll cage just in case coming down hills doesn't go well for the nose-heavy behemouth.

Read more: Jeep Forward Control Concept - Jeep J-12 Concept - Popular Mechanics
Follow us: @PopMech on Twitter | popularmechanics on Facebook
Visit us at PopularMechanics.com

its an ugly #### ,not like most other forward controls

blue beasty · Oct 13, 2013

It does look front.....and top heavy. Should imagine it's well useful though

Thor1950 · Oct 13, 2013

jamesmartin said:
its an ugly #### ,not like most other forward controls

Those were made before land rover made theirs. Copied the jeep and FC, They say coping is a form of flattery........

Thor1950 · Oct 13, 2013

blue beasty said:
It does look front.....and top heavy. Should imagine it's well useful though

Make a damn good replacement for the 110 and 130 Pickups. More payload and towing capacity, and has factory locking diffs, true 4 wheel drive instead of 2 opposite corners

jamesmartin · Oct 13, 2013

Thor1950 said:
Make a damn good replacement for the 110 and 130 Pickups. More payload and towing capacity, and has factory locking diffs, try 4 wheel drive instead of 2 opposite corners

why opposite corners ?this seems a common misconception on how diffs work

Thor1950 · Oct 13, 2013

jamesmartin said:
why opposite corners ?this seems a common misconception on how diffs work

seen to many videos where a defender only has power to opposite corners. Watched a bunch of videos today from one of the green lane gangs going up a steep rocky trails lots of spinning tyres.If they would of had locking diffs would of been different.

jamesmartin · Oct 13, 2013

Thor1950 said:
seen to mant videos where a defender onlt has power to opposite corners. Watched a bunch of videos today from one of the green lane gangs going up a steep rocky trails lots of spinning tyres.If they would of had locking diffs would of been different.

does it #### , it has drive to both axles ,of which any one wheel spinning on both would render vehicle standing still ie both on the same side ,yes lockers work because spinning wheel doesnt effect the others

jamesmartin · Oct 13, 2013

Thor1950 said:
seen to many videos where a defender only has power to opposite corners. Watched a bunch of videos today from one of the green lane gangs going up a steep rocky trails lots of spinning tyres.If they would of had locking diffs would of been different.

cross axle -ing is just a position where both front and rear axle are likely to have very little weight on one opposite wheel ie one on each axle , the same could be achieved with the same side wheels running in a slippy rut

Thor1950 · Oct 13, 2013

jamesmartin said:
cross axle -ing is just a position where both front and rear axle are likely to have very little weight on one opposite wheel ie one on each axle , the same could be achieved with the same side wheels running in a slippy rut

Guess I am spoiled with my locking diffs, have not had non locking diffs in 20 years. What I like on mine is when I lock in 4 wheel high or 4 wheel low all 4 have traction in a straight line, turn steering wheel then the inside of turn kicks out and have 3 wheel drive weather 1 is off the ground or not

jamesmartin · Oct 13, 2013

Thor1950 said:
Guess I am spoiled with my locking diffs, have not had non locking diffs in 20 years. What I like on mine is when I lock in 4 wheel high or 4 wheel low all 4 have traction in a straight line, turn steering wheel then the inside of turn kicks out and have 3 wheel drive weather 1 is off the ground or not

locking diffs are a necessity unless you have traction control for the most difficult stuff , but lrs 4wd with center diff is better than some for general use

owl · Oct 13, 2013

Iveco do a 4x4 with lots of variants and a commercial bias, JLR should be looking to do something similar. Tata did say to JLR that Defender is a commercial and that is why the DC100 was binned.

GINGE · Oct 13, 2013

Thor1950 said:
where are those made at? what country

good old motor city John

not too far from you i do believe.

Jeep wrangler all over it, It would be very cost effective for jeep to make, it uses parts that already exist.

apparently it is weighted in each corner to keep it stable.

It just wouldnt pass any safety tests etc as there is no crumple zones

Paul D · Oct 13, 2013

Those Ivecos look like vans more than Defenders, feckin' massive!

IMHO .. Defender needs to be made even more simple .. make it a truly modular vehicle, easier to remove roof, sides, tub etc and change them out for different configurations or purposes. Should come with a fitted rollcage and axle diff locks, the bodywork goes round the cage so it's not necessarily obvious.

If they need sophisticated (they shouldn't with a decent engine) electronics for the engine and emissions, make them modular too and inside the cab, essentially water-proofed, with only leads between the ECU's and engine bay. Easily swappable again for different purposes and maybe for different power characteristics. Make them even easier to service .. oil filters, fuel filters etc remotely connected and mounted so very easily accessible from under the bonnet, One diesel, one petrol engine, tuneable by swappable ecu's, readily connectable to standard laptops/software for diagnosis instead of having to buy stupidly expensive stuff.

I'd also suggest going 'back in time' to fit a decent PTO take-off with a ready made set of tools, winches, saw tables, small grass cutters, small ploughs etc etc to suit .. become a real Jack of all Trades, with most basic parts available as options from the dealer at order time and also available after-market.

Imagine kitting one out, for instance in Africa, to be self-sufficient for drilling small local water bores and pumps ... adding a PTO powered trailer for 6 wheel drive for load carrying or expedition use .. with the trailer also having an extra PTO output!

Trouble is, it seems to me though I can understand why, that they seem to have lost a vision of a 'do anything, go anywhere' vehicle that can be fixed relatively easily when **** happens. They're focussed on bling 'cos that's selling right now, which might be able to fund such a vehicle as an off-shoot ... The off-shoots (RR, Disco, Freelander etc) now being the main money-earners and funding what was the main, Defender!!

Karma ..

the_wolf · Oct 13, 2013

Yeah the problem with the above is that it would cost an absolute fortune to produce and its for a very niche corner of the defender customer base. Not everyone goes off road and needs locking diffs, roll cage etc... If a farmer does get stuck in a fender which I'm sure happens sometimes with any vehicle then he has his tractor to pull it out. Plenty on here won't go off road, including me although I do enjoy it but if land rover produced a vehicle to your specifications as above I just couldn't justify buying one because they would be extortionate, not to mention the fact that LR would never make a profit on them because bear in mind they will still have to be hand built.

They couldn't be any simpler as they are. Everything still unbolts as it used to and the only major difference is the engine and ECU but unless we can design and produce a simple engine friendly to the home mechanic that meets EU regs then its not gonna change.

I'm still with the crowd on here who suggested keeping the current fender, putting in the TDV6 and marketing it as a commercial vehicle. Job done. I've never driven the TDV6 but from what I've read its a good engine.

All this nonsense of fitting lockers, roll cages and god knows what else is not economically viable for anyone apart from aftermarket suppliers who currently make a profit from buyers that want the ultimate off road machine

owl · Oct 13, 2013

What ever they come up with has to be attractive to commercial operators hence be cost effective and be a platform for a variety of applications. As Tata said it isn't an SUV so don't design one. The new vehicle can of course can cross over into the leisure market but primarily it must do a job of work.
I talk to the guys at JLR but they don't know much as yet, Tata want to stop production of the T5 chassis so it won't be on that but beyond that they are back at the drawing board so to speak which is why there is a gap in production.

Thor1950 · Oct 13, 2013

GINGE said:
good old motor city John not too far from you i do believe.

Jeep wrangler all over it, It would be very cost effective for jeep to make, it uses parts that already exist.

apparently it is weighted in each corner to keep it stable.

It just wouldnt pass any safety tests etc as there is no crumple zones

I found the artical about it, very nice

Epicuser · Dec 21, 2013

JLR need to make a car they can sell. It needs to be safe, economical and cheap to build, because they need to get their range emissions down. To be economical it needs to be light, so no chassis. To keep weight down I would expect it to have their terrain response system rather than expensive locking diffs.

I'm not saying this is what you guys want, but what I think they will do.

Isn't that the way the new RR & sport have gone? Maybe a slightly more utilitarian version of an RR without all the other gizmos.

Or maybe they will take a Tata van and put 4wd in it and call it the new defender. Who knows?

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Leaks an prone to bits dropping off

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Greenlane liker, bobble hat hater

Old, nackered 'n broke, but the Landy is fine . :)

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