dieseldog69 · Feb 27, 2019

Norton643 said:
No.. its a Bowler Defender 2.2 tdci a proper machine leaves all other Defenders for dust

You need a mode button then not wishfull thinking.

I have seen several ECU powered engined running dual modes, not sure whether they were side by side ECUs or dual mapping but entirely selectable between performance and economy modes.

Might be better for you?

flat · Feb 27, 2019

Might be worth a look on a Ford forum aswell, given that’s its a ford engine

goonarmy · Feb 27, 2019

Turboman said:
Sounds like it leaves the environment for dust as well.

Sounds knackered.

Turboman · Feb 27, 2019

goonarmy said:
Sounds knackered.

Or driven by someone with lead boots.

Nodge68 · Feb 28, 2019

DanClarke said:
I think they are all hype. Discredited in most cases though.

Definitely snake oil. If these products worked, then manufacturers would fit them. As manufacturers don't fit them, then they don't work.

Bobsticle · Feb 28, 2019

I have wanted to fit one to Henry from day one. Eventually I may get round to it.
I’m sure you don’t get anything for nothing in the fuel world and unless remapped you won’t get anything at all out of a modern engine.
I want one for burn efficiency. Many old Diesel engines including mine smoke due to one reason or another. I believe once fitted and tweaked the hydrogen and oxygen introduced helps burn off most of the crap so smoke and carbon fowling become almost none existent.
Would be nice to run a smoke free diesel series.

marjon · Feb 28, 2019

Nodge68 said:
Definitely snake oil. If these products worked, then manufacturers would fit them. As manufacturers don't fit them, then they don't work.

I believe they do work.
Why would a manufacture fit it at extra cost all the time they meet standards?

Manufacture do go the whole hog and do hydrogen fuel cell cars. Which is not the same.

From the reading I did. A few tweaks are needed to get the best and also a few probs with the fluid used in the cell.

Cars will run on pure H2 but it gets expensive. HHO is slightly different, it contains hydrogen and oxygen so is clean burn ready

It’s a huge subject and some don’t like it ( major oil companies being 1 )

Cooler burn and drips water out of the exhaust. What’s wrong with that

Oh except perhaps the need for a good stainless exhaust

J

Nodge68 · Feb 28, 2019

marjon said:
I believe they do work.

That's what seller's of such systems want people to think.

marjon said:
Why would a manufacture fit it at extra cost all the time they meet standards?

Because vehicles are often sold based on MPG. Better MPG = better sales.

marjon said:
A few tweaks are needed to get the best

What sort of tweaks?

marjon said:
few probs with the fluid used in the cell

And costs. It has to use de-ionized water with an added electrolyte. This will reduce any potential cost savings.

marjon said:
Cars will run on pure H2 but it gets expensive. HHO is slightly different, it contains hydrogen and oxygen so is clean burn ready

The engine will melt down internally running on hydrogen, as it's simply not designed to take the stresses involved.

marjon said:
Cooler burn

Burning H2 is hotter than burning petrol.

marjon said:
drips water out of the exhaust. What’s wrong with that

A petrol car with a an efficiently working cat puts out large amounts of H2O out the exhaust system anyway.

marjon said:
and do hydrogen fuel cell cars

A Hydrogen powered car works in a completely different way, and don't have an internal combustion engine.

The Hydrogen gas is passed over a fuel cell, which generates electrical power by passing hydrogen atoms over a special substrate in fuel cell at the anode end where a chemical reaction strips them of their electrons. The now ionized, hydrogen atoms carry a positive electrical charge. The other end if the fuel cell admits Oxygen negatively charged electrons provide the current through wires to do work. Oxygen is then combined at the other side of the cell to produce water as a by-product.

This HHO generator consumes 30 or more Amps from the electrical system, which will use more petrol to get the process working, basically offsetting any minimal economy gains.

It's simple physics. There's no free energy, regardless of how it's created.

It's snake oil, pure and simple .

marjon · Feb 28, 2019

As I said earlier it has had much debate good and bad.

Let me start with this.

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/mazda/mazda-rx-8-hydrogen-re-2007-review/

I don’t have all my research available on this dapple thingy, but will try and answer as I see it.

Nodge68 said:
What sort of tweaks?

Lambda sensor, or fuel map adjustments when using HHO. Fuel map is difficult with HHO because of delivery and non measured production, easier with H2 stored in special tanks just like LPG.

Nodge68 said:
A petrol car with a an efficiently working cat puts out large amounts of H2O out the exhaust system anyway

Not strictly true, only when cold and inefficient. Once hot no H2O but still loads of other noxious gases.

Nodge68 said:
Burning H2 is hotter than burning petrol.

We are not strictly talking H2 here(as thread), but HHO. Does LPG burn hotter? But we don’t have problems with it.

Nodge68 said:
And costs. It has to use de-ionized water with an added electrolyte. This will reduce any potential cost savings

Yes I stated this and agree, limitation but not costly to buy but, disposal still questionable.

Nodge68 said:
This HHO generator consumes 30 or more Amps from the electrical system, which will use more petrol to get the process working, basically offsetting any minimal economy gains

Agreed, I stated earlier they are power hungry, and get hot.

Nodge68 said:
A Hydrogen powered car works in a completely different way, and don't have an internal combustion engine

Agreed. But think I did say that.

marjon said:
Manufacture do go the whole hog and do hydrogen fuel cell cars. Which is not the same

Have a look at Stanley Meyer.
It’s some interesting reading. Believe what parts you like but it can’t all be lies.

I am not saying I know it all and am open to discuss. I firmly believe H2 is cleaner than leccy cars.
Production and storage still expensive, but if in 20years I can still drive my V8, or even go back to another RX , I will take it.

J

Turboman · Feb 28, 2019

marjon said:
It’s a huge subject and some don’t like it ( major oil companies being 1 )

That idea is a popular conspiracy theory about all kinds of stuff.

But have to say, it is not my experience of how big companies work.

What is more usual is that if they see a technology that they think works, they buy it, develop it themselves, and make money selling it.

marjon · Feb 28, 2019

Turboman said:
That idea is a popular conspiracy theory about all kinds of stuff.

But have to say, it is not my experience of how big companies work.

What is more usual is that if they see a technology that they think works, they buy it, develop it themselves, and make money selling it.

Maybe I should have worded that better.

But it’s still a huge marmite type of subject.

Bit like why is BP now getting big into solar farms and battery storage.

J

Turboman · Feb 28, 2019

marjon said:
Maybe I should have worded that better.

But it’s still a huge marmite type of subject.

Bit like why is BP now getting big into solar farms and battery storage.

J

That was exactly the sort of thing I was thinking of. All the oil majors are now big into renewables. And probably making the batteries for electric cars as well, but I don't know much about those.

Nodge68 · Mar 1, 2019

Turboman said:
That was exactly the sort of thing I was thinking of. All the oil majors are now big into renewables. And probably making the batteries for electric cars as well, but I don't know much about those

They have no choice, as when the oil runs out, they'll need to diversify or go bust.

Colthebrummie · Mar 1, 2019

Bobsticle said:
I have wanted to fit one to Henry from day one. Eventually I may get round to it.
I’m sure you don’t get anything for nothing in the fuel world and unless remapped you won’t get anything at all out of a modern engine.
I want one for burn efficiency. Many old Diesel engines including mine smoke due to one reason or another. I believe once fitted and tweaked the hydrogen and oxygen introduced helps burn off most of the crap so smoke and carbon fowling become almost none existent.
Would be nice to run a smoke free diesel series.

That's just the drugs talking.

Col

Nodge68 · Mar 1, 2019

marjon said:
Lambda sensor, or fuel map adjustments when using HHO.

I suspect this entire thread will be of no real importance, as the OP is wanting to fit the HHO system to a diesel, which is going to be challenging, as these systems are designed to work in NA spark ignition engines.

Nodge68 · Mar 1, 2019

Bobsticle said:
I want one for burn efficiency. Many old Diesel engines including mine smoke due to one reason or another. I believe once fitted and tweaked the hydrogen and oxygen introduced helps burn off most of the crap so smoke and carbon fowling become almost none existent.

Surely it's better to make the engine run cleaner and stop it smoking, rather than add some complicated and potentially expensive waste of money HHO kit to it.

Bobsticle · Mar 1, 2019

Nodge68 said:
Surely it's better to make the engine run cleaner and stop it smoking, rather than add some complicated and potentially expensive waste of money HHO kit to it.

A series two and a quarter. Run clean. And I’m on drugs.

kermit_rr · Mar 1, 2019

I don't see how it would work with diesel. There's no spark, diesel self combusts, hydrogen won't, so you're adding a gas to the diesel/air mix, thus reducing the ratio of diesel, surely that will make it less likely to combust?
Psst I'm not a diesel expert

Turboman · Mar 1, 2019

Nodge68 said:
They have no choice, as when the oil runs out, they'll need to diversify or go bust.

Exactly. Or, to be more accurate, when climate change necessitates that no more emissions from burning oil are released into the atmosphere.
There is no shortage of oil in the ground. And they will still be selling some for lubricating oil and the like.
But they want to keep turnover up in other ways.

Colthebrummie · Mar 1, 2019

I wonder how many miles the average car would have to do to equal the pollution of a Boeing 747 flying to New York and back.

Col

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Beer tester

Mab An Gov

Well-Known Member

De Villes Advocaat

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Mab An Gov

Well-Known Member

Mab An Gov

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

De Villes Advocaat

Very

Mab An Gov

Well-Known Member

Similar threads