Ahem, much as I agree that there should be a national debate about how old and how young people should be to drive, I am of the "more mature years" myself and well aware of the need to check myself for my driving ability, incidentally, over 70 years drivers must self-certify their health to drive and the driving licence has to be re-applied for every five years. This thread was originally about notifying the insurance company of modifications.

On that subject, I think that some kind of direction from the combined might of the insurance companies might be of use as to what's a notifiable modification and what's not; for instance does the fitting of a pair of driving lamps constitute a notifiable modification? Likewise the removal of the EGR, hardly a performance enhancing mod, or the fitting of 16 inch alloys and winter tyres instead of the 18 inch wheels for the 3 months from December to the end of February?
 
I have to agree slightly with mr b20. A vehicle is a luxury, its not your god given right to have one. You have to earn it

I don't buy this whole, its not fair on people who live in the countryside. If you don't like it then don't live there. Or if you want to live in a rural area and you don't have a license then you have to compromise don't you. I agree its not easy, but if your that desperate to drive to get your freedom then you will make it happen.

I never had my own car until i was 19 i believe. I had occasional use of my fathers when he wasn't using it. I didn't live in the countryside but i sure as hell didn't have the money for public transport, cigarettes were far more important! I decided that i wanted a car so badly i was going to work every hour god send to afford driving lessons etc. I did and i did, took me 2 attempts to pass but i wanted it loads so i persevered.

The same stands for employment, if you want a job that requires you to have a car then you need to pass your test or do another job.
 
GINGE said:
I have to agree slightly with mr b20. A vehicle is a luxury, its not your god given right to have one. You have to earn it

I don't buy this whole, its not fair on people who live in the countryside. If you don't like it then don't live there. Or if you want to live in a rural area and you don't have a license then you have to compromise don't you. I agree its not easy, but if your that desperate to drive to get your freedom then you will make it happen.

I never had my own car until i was 19 i believe. I had occasional use of my fathers when he wasn't using it. I didn't live in the countryside but i sure as hell didn't have the money for public transport, cigarettes were far more important! I decided that i wanted a car so badly i was going to work every hour god send to afford driving lessons etc. I did and i did, took me 2 attempts to pass but i wanted it loads so i persevered.

The same stands for employment, if you want a job that requires you to have a car then you need to pass your test or do another job.
Click to expand...

Yes... lots of 17 year olds choose to live in the countryside :rolleyes:

Just "upping and moving" somewhere, ignoring the potential job impacts, social life, etc. costs £10k on average in legal fees, removal charges, etc. Not exactly a light choice.

You could argue everything is a luxury - you don't need a house, people used to live in caves or mud huts. You don't need clothes, you don't even need a job, you could just collect berries from the wild, but, a more sensible look is that a job, food, accomodation and transport are the basics required by an average person (ignoring those who are unable to work due to age or illness, etc.) :)
 
Cars are luxuries however we have grown used to having them so they have become necessity. Just like Mobiles, 47" TVs and Laptops. Most people these days would not know what to do if you took their phone away from them for a week. How would they talk to their friends???? How are they going to play Candy Crush :D

I started work at 18 after going to collage (which i walked or rode to and was about 2 miles) Every morning I had to walk a mile to the bus stop then get the Express bus into London, get off at Dagenham and then walk the half a mile to my workplace. I then had to do the reverse every night. I left the house at 6am and got home around 6pm. So all this 'you have to have a car' is crap, oh it is certainly useful and i wouldnt want to be without one but say you lost your job? are you going to stop eating just so you can keep your car???


Oh and all mods declared, £180 FC with Greenlight :D
 
Interesting posts!

I'm 68 in February, classed as an 'Oldie' no doubt but still drive long distances and overseas, towing our big 6-wheel trailer, so get plenty of practice.

I agree with both sides of the 'car is a luxury' argument. If you are in town with public transport, shops that you can walk to and work just round the corner, then it is a luxury of sorts, but it's your choice to fund it, just as others choose to smoke or drink and spend their money that way, it's purely personal choice.

If you are out in the sticks with no reliable public transport, no local shops, cr*p internet connection etc etc then it becomes a necessity, funded again by choice.

We cover 15000 miles a year in our D2 V8, some days it won't turn a wheel as we live two streets from the factory, but I normally bring it in as I will go out and do collections of parts or shopping most days.

As far as the insurers go, we declare every little nut and bolt. It may not register anything on the costs side but at least they know what you are doing and cannot slide out from any claim.

We had a situation with fitting tyres that were not as per the original specification, 255/65R16 106T against 109T on the original spec. Insurers said that as long as they fitted the wheels and that the wheels were original LR spec for the vehicle, they had no problems, and I had that in writing as well.

Have also got Firestone air bag assisters to fit, no problems with that, and we have seven seats with coil springs, no probolem, plus we have LPG, no problem.

As long as you keep in touch and you are not doing anything outrageous, and you have a track record of letting them know what you are doing, there should be no problems.

Sorry for the long post.

Peter
 
It's not really a luxury when you live 28 miles from work and start at 7:00, 8:00, 9:00, 10:00, 12:00, 15:00, 18:00 or 22:00 depending on the shift you are working and might finish 11 hours before you start again having finished one 11 hour shift and starting another one! When you would have to walk 6 miles to the nearest bus station because buses do not run here until 7am then have to change buses twice and then walk another 4 miles leaving the house at 4:30am to start at 7am and only getting home 2.5-3 hours after you finish and that is IF you finish on time as it is quite possible you could finish 1-2 hours late effectively giving you about 4 hours sleep even if you don't eat etc..... For some people they are a necessity, you could rely on colleagues and hope that they finish at the same time and live in the same direction but you cannot realistically keep that going for long. Yes if you live in a city where public transport runs 24 hours a day it's probably doable but otherwise it isn't. Yes people didn't always have the option of buying a car BUT back then you worked next to where you live. If you are saying that you could give up the job, change jobs, sell up and move, live in a cave, eat grass etc then your argument is silly.
 
Bump said:
Not really... maybe i should retract that statement



Up to the age of 16 there was a school bus which toured all the local villages. When you finished GCSE age you couldn't use the school bus to get to sixth form - thankfully there was another kid in the village a year older than me I could give petrol money to in return for a ride. Failing that it was reliant on my parents, who both worked so involved me getting there 2 hours early.

I had use of a 90 from the age of 13... that was never an issue. My parents transported me around until my sister could drive then she did... it's part of living in the countryside!

there you go - you got around the problem, so it was an inconvienience but you got to where you wanted to go by one means or another


tis easy as someone who's had the luxury to then take it away from a young person... it doesn't affect them but they feel they know best for the youngster... not allowing the youngster to learn for themselves.

obviously those that already had the luxury would not have it taken from them, it would start from a point that those who are not already old enough or are not under instruction or not got a provisional already

From a semi-young person's point of view i feel that everyone who hits 60 should have to re-take their driving test every 5 years - you see some old people who are lethal on the roads, really shouldn't be allowed. Bet you disagree with that though :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

no if you read carefully my initial post i also said at retirement age (whatever it is now) you should take a test regularly, i agree there are many people out there who cant see over the wheel or past the bonnet.
 
cowasaki said:
It's not really a luxury when you live 28 miles from work and start at 7:00, 8:00, 9:00, 10:00, 12:00, 15:00, 18:00 or 22:00 depending on the shift you are working and might finish 11 hours before you start again having finished one 11 hour shift and starting another one! When you would have to walk 6 miles to the nearest bus station because buses do not run here until 7am then have to change buses twice and then walk another 4 miles leaving the house at 4:30am to start at 7am and only getting home 2.5-3 hours after you finish and that is IF you finish on time as it is quite possible you could finish 1-2 hours late effectively giving you about 4 hours sleep even if you don't eat etc..... For some people they are a necessity, you could rely on colleagues and hope that they finish at the same time and live in the same direction but you cannot realistically keep that going for long. Yes if you live in a city where public transport runs 24 hours a day it's probably doable but otherwise it isn't. Yes people didn't always have the option of buying a car BUT back then you worked next to where you live. If you are saying that you could give up the job, change jobs, sell up and move, live in a cave, eat grass etc then your argument is silly.
Click to expand...

do you honestly think that everyone where you work has a vehicle? (sorry might only be a few who work there). they are odd hours of working but unusual shifts have not just been invented, people walked miles and miles to get to jobs when there were no cars.
yes you have an anoying soul destroying job which in todays times i would think that you didnt have much more choice in employemt. but a car is a luxury.......
 
Tuskenraider said:
I started work at 18 after going to collage (which i walked or rode to and was about 2 miles) Every morning I had to walk a mile to the bus stop then get the Express bus into London, get off at Dagenham and then walk the half a mile to my workplace. I then had to do the reverse every night. I left the house at 6am and got home around 6pm. So all this 'you have to have a car' is crap, oh it is certainly useful and i wouldnt want to be without one but say you lost your job? are you going to stop eating just so you can keep your car???
Click to expand...

We are discussing people who live in the countryside, not the suburbs of London here :rolleyes: - going to London it makes 100% sense to use public transport it is brilliant - i've driven into london a few times, but, by choice i always get the train then walk / bus / tube it's far easier!

b20wnx said:
I had use of a 90 from the age of 13... that was never an issue. My parents transported me around until my sister could drive then she did... it's part of living in the countryside!

there you go - you got around the problem, so it was an inconvienience but you got to where you wanted to go by one means or another
Click to expand...

Haha... thank you... you just proved my point - yes - we resolved the issue BY USING A CAR (well Land Rover) i was too young to drive, but, someone else drove, it still involved cars, there wasn't another option available to us!
 
b20wnx said:
do you honestly think that everyone where you work has a vehicle? (sorry might only be a few who work there). they are odd hours of working but unusual shifts have not just been invented, people walked miles and miles to get to jobs when there were no cars.
yes you have an anoying soul destroying job which in todays times i would think that you didnt have much more choice in employemt. but a car is a luxury.......
Click to expand...

??

Yes EVERYONE where I work has a vehicle and who said I have an annoying soul destroying job? I have an excellent job which requires 24x7 cover so there are rotating shifts. I walked 6 miles to work when I was in my early 20s and the same home but I can't walk 28 miles and there isn't any public transport when I start work so without a car or someone else's car I cannot get to work and back in less than about 5 hours. So for a lot of people it might be a luxury but for me it isn't. Also I can be sent to anywhere in the county and walking 50 miles to work and the same back is even more ridiculous. When you start at 7 and so does the public transport you need a car. If you are going to argue with that then you are clearly arguing for arguing sake because there is no argument !!
 
Bump said:
We are discussing people who live in the countryside, not the suburbs of London here :rolleyes: - going to London it makes 100% sense to use public transport it is brilliant - i've driven into london a few times, but, by choice i always get the train then walk / bus / tube it's far easier!



Haha... thank you... you just proved my point - yes - we resolved the issue BY USING A CAR (well Land Rover) i was too young to drive, but, someone else drove, it still involved cars, there wasn't another option available to us!
Click to expand...
hahahaha........ yes you used a car but your dad drove and i presume he is over 25?? which was my origional point...

i drove about 6 miles today from home to the garage (to get my made to measure exhaust and was a lone occupant) and on the way there i thought i would count how many vehicles only had one person in it (well i lost count, due to high numbers and maths at school wasnt my strong point) and i would honestly say that 18 out of 20 cars only had one occupant and the tail back went back miles...... something must be wrong somewhere????
 
cowasaki said:
??

Yes EVERYONE where I work has a vehicle and who said I have an annoying soul destroying job? I have an excellent job which requires 24x7 cover so there are rotating shifts. I walked 6 miles to work when I was in my early 20s and the same home but I can't walk 28 miles and there isn't any public transport when I start work so without a car or someone else's car I cannot get to work and back in less than about 5 hours. So for a lot of people it might be a luxury but for me it isn't. Also I can be sent to anywhere in the county and walking 50 miles to work and the same back is even more ridiculous. When you start at 7 and so does the public transport you need a car. If you are going to argue with that then you are clearly arguing for arguing sake because there is no argument !!
Click to expand...

I am not arguing, nor do i wish for this discussion to become an argument, i simply stated what i thought. I wasnt trying to belittle your job or your work hours as employers have too much upper hand in today jobs market. if you enjoy your job all well and good but if you didnt have a car? say it broke down and was in the garage for a week. what would you do, take a weeks holiday? walk/cycle? get a lift? your vehicle may seem a necessaty but its not one way or another you would get to work and back or have to think about changing your job..IMO
 
Just getting back to insurance for a moment, I wonder how they work out the additional charges. I've just filled in an email enquiry form on my insurer's website asking if there would be any additional charge if I fitted LED sidelights and indicators, and a spare wheel carrier. They replied pretty quickly - in about an hour - and said that would be £20.01. Hmm. I haven't bought the accessories yet, just wondered what they would say, but where does the 1p come from I wonder?
 
I told my insurance last week, aviva (van insurance) about my TDI change and alloys and wider tyres and after a shed load of questions and 45 minutes on the phone no extra charges were added.
 
b20wnx said:
i dont care what you say, a vehicle is a luxury, how did you get to school before driving age? how did you socialise before driving age? how did you get to places once you had your licence but didnt have use of a car?
dont forget its not just young people i am aiming this at its also the retired.
dont get me wrong i know it would inconvenience a lot of people but so does a lot of other things in this life
Click to expand...
For some that do live in towns, yes a car is a luxury, but not everyone lives in a town. For me, my Land Rover isn't a luxury, it is absolutely vital. I don't have a fixed work address, and my work is entirely outdoors based. One day I could be carrying 7 or 8 passengers and all of their kit into the middle of nowhere on an outdoors training weekend, and the next day I could be helping my friend on his farm moving livestock or shifting a few tons of feed, wood or straw. If you think I can do that without a vehicle, I would love for you to show me how.
 
Bump said:
F**king typical old person.
Changing it to 18 would screw a huge number of people over, let alone 25, fine if you live in a town or city, but, live in the countryside, hitting 17 and being able to drive is a life line, it gives you access to a social life in the local towns and the ability to visit girls / friends. Buses? What the feck are they? They definitely don't exist in the countryside. Starting to learn on the road from 17 also means you can be passed and done before uni for those who go, given that a lot of graduate jobs require you to have a driving license, if you couldn't start learning till 18 a lot of younger people wouldn't be able to pass before uni, being able to afford to learn to drive whilst at uni is very unlikely so, you graduate without the ability to drive and you have reduced employment opportunities. (same applies for those who leave collage / school at 18 looking for work)

Speak to anyone in a pub about drink driving, it's not the young people, young people (generically speaking) won't even have one drink if driving - people in there 40's and upwards will quite happily knock back 3 or 4 pints then drive. :eek:
Click to expand...

i agree with you there, being able to drive has masively improved my life, i am going through my trailer test early next year then as soon as i turn 18 i will be doing my class 1 and 2 tests, the driving has already improved my job, i havent had a drop of alcohol since my birthday and if im driving the next day i wont even have 1 pint of beer, to me its the principle but also 1 can lead to another etc but also even if you have had a drink but are under the limit if the police pull me at my age they will still give me some stick over it, to me its not worth it as i will not only lose my licence but also not be able to get insured again for many years
 
b20wnx said:
hahahaha........ yes you used a car but your dad drove and i presume he is over 25?? which was my origional point...

i drove about 6 miles today from home to the garage (to get my made to measure exhaust and was a lone occupant) and on the way there i thought i would count how many vehicles only had one person in it (well i lost count, due to high numbers and maths at school wasnt my strong point) and i would honestly say that 18 out of 20 cars only had one occupant and the tail back went back miles...... something must be wrong somewhere????
Click to expand...

at the end of the day if everyone on that road had paid there dues why cant they only have 1 person in their car? how do you know they hadnt just dropped a load of people off or picked them up?
 
GINGE said:
I don't buy this whole, its not fair on people who live in the countryside. If you don't like it then don't live there. Or if you want to live in a rural area and you don't have a license then you have to compromise don't you. I agree its not easy, but if your that desperate to drive to get your freedom then you will make it happen.
Click to expand...

Just for a laugh..

Many in the countryside decide ginge is correct and go off to live in the cities and suburbs. Uh oh, that's 9 million people.

Housing market see's huge demand and now all the prices have shot up.. town folks are complaining about being unable to move or afford houses.

The city has suddenly got massive unemployment as there is no longer enough jobs for the new population. uh oh.

The cities are starting to struggle to cope with the additional pressure but ith the same money (as the unemployed can't pay council tax) and rubbish is piling up. uh oh.

Ah well.. wait what's this.. food prices are shooting right up. They have to now import everything? Oh, no-one to work the farms and they've had to all close. oh uh

Now the ironic part, public transport services are now at capacity, the prices have shot up and quite often you are unable to get a seat.. you start looking at cars...
 
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