Grit Valve
2000 4.6 Vouge
The pump will electrics won't but the cars pumps are slightly tuned differnt compaired to the range rover fitted unit for midrange, thus when said units are fitted to range rover there is a slight loss Beyond midrange that is evedent in range rovers
Strange because the Omega pump is the same part number as the Rangie pump. So is exactly the same pump. It's the ECU map that makes the difference. The BMW one that won't work on a Rangie is a different part number and won't work on the Range Rover or Omega.
Grit Valve
2000 4.6 Vouge
Is strange isn't it seeing as I have a fitted BMW 1993 with pump and top electrics changed .
Are we going to argue about this all day, the Omega pump will fit straight on a Range Rover, the BMW won't because it has different electrics as you say, if you swop the electrics, it then becomes a NRO 460 406 994 VE R 515 as fitted to the Range Rover and Omega, instead of a NRO 460 406 995 VE R 515. As fitted to the BMW. If you fit an Omega pump to a Range Rover it is a straight replacement. No change of electrics needed.
Grit Valve
2000 4.6 Vouge
Are we going to argue about this all day, the Omega pump will fit straight on a Range Rover, the BMW won't because it has different electrics as you say, if you swop the electrics, it then becomes a NRO 460 406 994 VE R 515 as fitted to the Range Rover and Omega, instead of a NRO 460 406 995 VE R 515. As fitted to the BMW. If you fit an Omega pump to a Range Rover it is a straight replacement. No change of electrics needed.
Right well you did say it won't work, when as we have said change electrics yes the mapping does contribute but what does it tell the fuel pump so matter what it tels l the pump the pump can only deliver what is was made for ! As I said earler the BMW has a slight differance to its internal settings compaired to the range rovers unit !! From bosh the horses mouth , bit like adjusting your carbs remember them!
JohnnyCrash
New Member
Simply the BMW electrics will not work with the Land rover electrics. The pumps as far as i am away are exactly the same internally other than the electrics. What carbs are these then?
Grit Valve
2000 4.6 Vouge
Any carb can be adjusted to give differant Power curves bia its jets same as injection pump ie the 044 and the 513 for example that has a higher flow rating .
They can indeed within certain parameters, how do you adjust two identical EDC injection pumps one to deliver more fuel than the other at a given point?
Grit Valve
2000 4.6 Vouge
The position of the control sleeve controls at what angle the spill port opens, and thus determines the amount of fuel injected, in other words it controls the metering. The control sleeve is moved in response to a combination of accelerator position and engine speed. The latter is determined by a mechanical governor.
Look I'm no egg spurt in this field but I have been told by reliable sorce that the BMW pump fitted in BMW cars is slightly differs from that in the range rover it has something to do with the power curves as well as the non compatable electrics,I would of thought that makes sence at they are both differnt cars in aerodynamics,wieght too
its perfomace functions .
Datatek
Well-Known Member
So what you are saying is the pump internals are changed to give this difference is that correct?
Datatek
Well-Known Member
I thought that was only on old fully mechanical FIP's, electronic control has done away with the mechanical governor. This was necessary to meet emissions regulations.
Electronic control also did away with the mechanical governor in the ZF4HP22/24 auto box.
Grit Valve
2000 4.6 Vouge
As far as I know .
Looking at past threads neither the Omega or BMW FIP electrics will work with the P38
According to Bosch parts list the NVO 460 406 994 VE R 515 pump was fitted at some stage to BMW cars and Omegas. That is the one fitted to the P38. So if you get a pump with those numbers it should be a direct replacement. The one that needs the electrics changing on is the pump ending in 995 that was also fitted to the above but never to Range Rovers.
Mark Type Part number Applications Photo Engine Enquiries
bosch VE 0460406994 VE R 515 BMW 325,525,725 TDS 85-105 kw Opel Omega 2.5 TD 96 kw Range Rover 2.5 DT/DSE 100 kw Vauxhall Omega 2.5 TD 96 kw M 51 D 25 25 TD OHC M 51 D 25 X 25 TD OHC
aerofabrique
Active Member
op2:
So how come you can have a P38 with 136 BHP. Fit a powerbox to it and have a P38 with 165 BHP, more torque and different power band? Without changing anything inside the pump. I the case of this pump which apart from what we know about it electrical wise, is the same for each vehicle, it's the different ECU maps that change the characteristics for the vehicle they are fitted in, not internal pump differences. IF you fitted a 995 from a BMW or Omega you would have to change the electrics yes, but the pump other than that is the same apart from the number stamped on it. Maybe interesting if anyone goes for a new pump quoting the part number of the one you changed the electrics on. They would get a pump that would not work.
aerofabrique
Active Member
So how come you can have a P38 with 136 BHP. Fit a powerbox to it and have a P38 with 165 BHP, more torque and different power band? Without changing anything inside the pump. I the case of this pump which apart from what we know about it electrical wise, is the same for each vehicle, it's the different ECU maps that change the characteristics for the vehicle they are fitted in, not internal pump differences. IF you fitted a 995 from a BMW or Omega you would have to change the electrics yes, but the pump other than that is the same apart from the number stamped on it. Maybe interesting if anyone goes for a new pump quoting the part number of the one you changed the electrics on. They would get a pump that would not work.
+1 - i havent touched my pump but have uprated torque and bhps (PSI box). As its all DDE on the Diesels - is this why 'tooners' dont offer 'uprated' pumps and instead we have boxes altering ECM fueling? Would understand if it was a fully mechanical injection system to support 300td1 (just like carbs
) but being electronic can't see how (or why) a different DDE pump would offer different outputs by themselves? Speaking to me mate diesel dave, they name the pump as a VP37/VE37, dont know the difference, but is common across many BVAG vehicles and all suffer leaks in the same place.Reading up on eager beavers who have already developed boxes/software/Apps! for the evoque you can get a whole range of power outputs/economy improvements simply by changing the engine map. So why go through the trouble of developing different expensive pumps to do the same thing?
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Grit Valve
2000 4.6 Vouge
i will try find out more, am not saying it can't be remapped but apperntly one of the pumps basically has a lesser top end range so now matter what you remap at it hasn't got the last bit needed . I may be wrong I'm not perfect but I get hold of him and find out what he was on about .So how come you can have a P38 with 136 BHP. Fit a powerbox to it and have a P38 with 165 BHP, more torque and different power band? Without changing anything inside the pump. I the case of this pump which apart from what we know about it electrical wise, is the same for each vehicle, it's the different ECU maps that change the characteristics for the vehicle they are fitted in, not internal pump differences. IF you fitted a 995 from a BMW or Omega you would have to change the electrics yes, but the pump other than that is the same apart from the number stamped on it. Maybe interesting if anyone goes for a new pump quoting the part number of the one you changed the electrics on. They would get a pump that would not work.
