Well, this has sturred up an interesting debate. I am interested in the comment that those asking "What do I get out of this" are the idiots who do the strutting around, especially as I made such a comment. I'm not taking that personally but I would like to justify what I said.

My reasons for considering joining a 4x4 response group was quite simply that the aim of the group was to use 4x4 vehicals to assist the blue light services and other public services, in times when these services are stretched or incapacitated due to weather. I could do that and I think that is a fantastic idea. We all know these services are over stretched and we are a poor lot if we can't do our bit in times of need.

However, there is no point if we don't gain something personally from doing this. I'm not talking about money, I'm talking about personal achievements. I'm talking about the good feeling of a job well done and the knowledge and experience gained from it. I felt that as training was avaliable to improve our skills then that would benefit me as a person. I can then use these skills to help others. In addition the appeal of being trained in off road driving and recovery I found very interesting and that is something I would liked to have done.

Then the cold light of day desended on me and I realised that the organisation was riddled with political agenda. I get enough of that rubbish at work and at home to want any more. In addition I could not understand why it took so much time to get me enroled. Hell, I was standing there saying I wanted to volunter and I thought they would welcome me with open arms. Instead it seemed inconvenent that they had to process my paperwork. Finally I saw members of the team in action and asked myself if I really could fit in here. It was clear that the outward message of what the team was about and the reality of the situation were two different things. The former I could go along with, the latter I could not.

I had learnt enough to know that each member vehical had to have identifying stickers so that the police could see we were who we said we were. I didn't see the point of, or wanted, any additional markings, reflectors or warning lights and as such I was not fitting any.

So I made my choice to walk away, but that didn't stop me from going out on Tuesday lunchtime, as the snow threatened, and spending out £25 on a good tow strap so that in the event I came across someone who had got stuck, that I had some ability to get them on their way. I don't want payment for this, I have a car that is better suited to these conditions than most and I can help. That's good enough for me. Get them on their way and wish them a safe journey to the safety of their home.

Is there anything wrong with that way of thinking. I sincerley hope not.
 
never thought id stir up this much **** but it makes good reading!
i think its made it clear there all different types of 4x4 owners, owning there landys all for different reasons....
 
Mseries3 said:
Wicked, I never been interested in Cadets but the TA sounds alright. I know someone who is a Mechanic (TA Reme i think? If there is such a thing) and i would not mind doing that... Dunno if you have to be 18 to do that though.

Also, do they do driving tests with the TA? (I mean general driving tests.) My mate has a Crane license and a load of other cool licenses from the ta :)
Click to expand...

you arent on about james by any chance are you, i think he was on about being reme?

and yes you can get driving tests done with the TA but in my opinion you are best off getting a car license off your own back if you can afford it, that way you can get yourself onto some more interesting licenses in the TA
 
carpy said:
you arent on about james by any chance are you, i think he was on about being reme?

and yes you can get driving tests done with the TA but in my opinion you are best off getting a car license off your own back if you can afford it, that way you can get yourself onto some more interesting licenses in the TA
Click to expand...

Nah it is a bloke where i had a part time job. And you are probably right, you are more usefull to them with a Car License.

Done a bit of researching and the REME one is up in Redhill so i would probably need to drive there anyway!

I also found out you need to be 17 to join the TA so it is something i will consider again next year :)
 
Mseries3 said:
Nah it is a bloke where i had a part time job. And you are probably right, you are more usefull to them with a Car License.

Done a bit of researching and the REME one is up in Redhill so i would probably need to drive there anyway!

I also found out you need to be 17 to join the TA so it is something i will consider again next year :)
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yup though i think its 17.5 before you can actually do anything, though that may be just infantry

i think discojamz on the forum is up at that reme unit
 
Darmain said:
So I made my choice to walk away, but that didn't stop me from going out on Tuesday lunchtime, as the snow threatened, and spending out £25 on a good tow strap so that in the event I came across someone who had got stuck, that I had some ability to get them on their way. I don't want payment for this, I have a car that is better suited to these conditions than most and I can help. That's good enough for me. Get them on their way and wish them a safe journey to the safety of their home.

Is there anything wrong with that way of thinking. I sincerley hope not.
Click to expand...

As said I was generalisining hugely in my previous post.

As above Nothing wrong with helping out although your are probably liable if anything goes wrong its not the nessasarily the response networks fault they are being so "clicky" its just because its the world we live in now days of being sued if the slightest thing goes wrong. They are so "clicky" its putting genuine people off helping out. That said some of them seem to go above and beyond arseyness.

As you lot can tell I'm not a huge fan of the response network group although overall they have been doing a good job especially here in Bedfordshire BHCLRC response group. I'm not a huge fan of BHCLRC either and vowed never to join/trial there again after a scruteneer (defo a non mechanic that was drafted in) tried to argue that somthing was unsafe (battery mount) (I have a hinged battery strap 4mmx12mmx battery width and a single M8 bolt to clamp it down) he did not like that and said it would fail and strip in a roll over. M8, 8.8 bolt strip with the weight of a battery. TWOT. I could not trial that day. I argued with him and the out come was too many cars in the RTV anyway sorry we do need marshals tho. At which point I fecked orff this was a while ago now a few years and think the scruteneer was being an arse. The club itself aint all that bad. The response team seem to be doing a really good job can't knock them.

Its the youtube TRAINING videos that do alot of damage to these response teams the show them being numptys doing things very wrongly and give them an even worse name. I'll stay clear of all the YeeHaa's asses the situation keep an eye out for problems and offer my help if and when requested. P.S I do have yellow beacons and a Hiviz jacket for recoverys (I used to do alot of towing dead Landys back from trial sites usually at 3am in the morning) but I will not be wearing the jacket nor flashing the lights unless they are actually needed and I certainly won't have RESPONSE TEAM across the back of the jacket pretending to be a policeman/ambulance/rescue worker walking around tescos like I saw yesterday in Tring. Jai
 
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Darmain said:
Then the cold light of day desended on me and I realised that the organisation was riddled with political agenda. I get enough of that rubbish at work and at home to want any more. In addition I could not understand why it took so much time to get me enroled. Hell, I was standing there saying I wanted to volunter and I thought they would welcome me with open arms. Instead it seemed inconvenent that they had to process my paperwork. Finally I saw members of the team in action and asked myself if I really could fit in here. It was clear that the outward message of what the team was about and the reality of the situation were two different things. The former I could go along with, the latter I could not.
Click to expand...

Darmain, I don't think it was aimed at you (not at anyone really). I could just see both sides possibly being similar......they I'm not doing it unless I'm paid, and the I'm not doing it unless I get to play with flashing lights.

You sound like you have the right attitude and just met a bad bunch.
Hopefully, this was either a misunderstanding, or the group has since sorted itself out - I don't know, never met them.


To everyone...

I can tell you that it is a specific aim of the WM group committee to keep away from clicky, politics, and idiots......I think the national group has that attitude as well.

However ALL the groups are independent and must made judged individually (for the moment anyway - there's a discussion in the national forum about standardising training and assessing in order to judge properly who is and isn't capable.)

I also know that the groups I looked at round here ALL said you can join even if you don't have a 4x4 (as passengers are often needed), or if you have no skills or equipment and then get the skills equipment as necessary.

There is a minimum requirement to become an active responder in most groups/situations so that eg I don't get sent out to tow an HGV, as I wouldn't know where to start and haven't got the kit. But I've no problem taking a care worker to an elderly persons home.

In all this, generalisations don't work, so try and stick with the good intentions usually done well opinion.....at least until you see otherwise.



It is an interesting thread isn't it ;)
 
As i said, nothing taken personally. It is a shame that this culture of "mistake while helping someone = sue" goes on. I heard the other day that if you kindly clear the path of your neighbours house, and he walks out and slips over, then you could be in court over it. I mean What the F**k is that all about. It isn't like we've made the situation any worse with what we've done. It isn't like we are out to cause injury. We're out there trying to help. Last February I cleared our cul-de-sac and everyones doorway. Not this time, partly because not one of the bastards thanks me and partly because I can't afford the consequences. Let them fall!! What am I saying, I don't work that way....... Talk about being a depressing situation. :(
 
Darmain said:
I heard the other day that if you kindly clear the path of your neighbours house, and he walks out and slips over, then you could be in court over it. (
Click to expand...

was that pub talk or something you read so may have some credibility ?
 
I didn't think you were supposed to clear snow as it makes it icy....or am I just too lazy to do it??
 
Depends on the situation I spose. If the person you help out is grateful for your efforts even though something went wrong then things can be put right. As soon as they see pound signs before the eyes then thats that relationship shot down in flames, regardless of what happens next.
 
Sirus said:
I didn't think you were supposed to clear snow as it makes it icy....or am I just too lazy to do it??
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I think what they were driving at is if you clear the snow you must clear all of it so that there is nothing to become icy. I guess a spread of salt is also a good move in the circumstances. If they fall after all that then it can be argued that it wasn't due to your work.
 
Darmain said:
I came across the 4x4 network earlier in the year and my first impression was what a great idea it was and how I could really see myself doing this. It seemed to me that I could contribute to the community doing the thing I loved best which is driving the Landy. In addition there was training of various types including off road driving. I was well impressed.

However.

It took me an age to find out any real information, such as expenses etc. My insurance company wasn't keen on the idea but went along with it eventually. I applied to join and waited and waited and waited. I was supposed to have an interview to arrange a CRB check but it just didn't happen. With a CRB check taking anything up to two months it was clear that I was going to be no use to them this winter if they didn't get a move on. This seriously naffed me off as hassle I didn't need.

There was another problem that bothered me greatly. There are several team about and in order to join the other teams would require a long list a requirements to meet first. Such things included a fully off road kitted vehical and recognised training. My car isn't particularly kitted for off road and I definately didn't have the training. Part of the reason I wanted to join was get trained up. With the group I was joining the requirements were a 4x4 and a CB!!!? It didn't add up.

Work was a problem too. Our management were not happy with the idea that I could suddenly get called away, even if it was very occationally. I would have to decline call outs during working hours.

Then the opportunity came up to go to an event that the team was working at. I went along with the intention of collering the chief punkawaller and saying 'interview me'. Before I got that far I was able to observe everything, the people, the cars that they drove. It seemed to me that the cars were more for show with their HiVi stickers and their orange stobe lights, than they were for action. The people it seemed, didn't have a clue what they were doing.

That was the final straw and I walked away and later that day withdraw my application.
Click to expand...

I've missed out on this thread as I've also been doing the 4x4 Response stuff. Apologies if I cover stuff thats been said as I havent read past this post.

Dave, the checking issue has been sorted out. Problem was that the checkers were all in south of region. We now have 3 members in the local area (inc yours truly) who can do the interviews. I am doing one in Melksham and have 1 in Chipp to meet soon.

No one expects you to turn out during working hours. I personally cant and dont anyway. I attend on my off shift days.

As I understand it, we pay a nominal fee to cover the liablility insurance and group minor expenses. Personally we are recommended to get business cover (extra £7p.a for me) just in case there is a question concerning insurance. Now Adrian Flux are doing a group deal and covering the Responders at no extra cost.

Mileage costs are repaid, almost immediately (well as soon as you complete the online claim form) and cover even our gas guzzlers.

For my part recently, before xmas I pulled a stuck ambulance off an icy driveway, and went to the aid of 2 ambulance responders that had gotten stuck. Yesterday I ferried 4 doctors from BRI to Weston General for duty. Nothing heavy duty recovery that I'm not trained for, or have the vehicle to cope with. Just helping the local services and community.

Others have done much much more!

As for the weather, remember that the gulf stream usually clears this type of crap weather after a few days. Its not economical to hold specialist vehicles, and lets face it, we know how our own vehicle copes in it.

The group are serious 4x4 owners and just as keen about them as anyone on here. :D
 
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