ned25 said:

going round in circles.... so carpy how did you get involved?

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Wrong, have stated perfect reasonably that the government could do the above easy.

You have tried to suggest that not volunteering is in some way not public spirited-to which I have pointed out a simple solution and given suggestions.

Personally the Government not giving a **** and neighbours not giving a **** about old people is why PC correct is crap.

Oh and I have an old school sense of community

fanatic said:

Sounding slightly better, answer me this
You attend a call out and it all goes tits up (who's paying vehicle repairs and is it a claim on your insurance)

As I said before why can't police etc commandeer army land rovers or for that case hire 4x4-I'm of the opinion that a bit of snow and it turns to ****-how do norway and Sweden cope?

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If my vehicle were to get damaged whilst actively attending an incident as i understand it the council should cover the cost of repair. it is the same if they hire out any vehicle, be it a farmer and his tractor, 4x4 response, a neighbouring police service atc. whilst responding to an incident where you are a member of an emergency response damage ought to be covered.

The whole why cant police have military land rovers is a tough one. health and safety is the main issue, the police station down the road from me has 2 mint 110's, but they cant use them because noone has taken the required police internal driving test that allows them to drive it. similar situation i would imagine with military landys. along with the fact that many policemen have never driven a landy and as a result would be less competent driving a 110 than you or I. they will also not be clued up in recovery, where to use a strop, KERR, rope, what shackels to use where, etc etc.

I said earlier how the other countries cope - better planning, more resources and finances put towards equipment and planning for adverse winter condition, and greater individual preparedness with motorists. as i said in many countries where snowfall is the norm in winter it is mandatory for cars to be equipped with winter tyres, and they can be landed with a pretty hefty fine if they dont have them. the differance a set of winter tyres makes on most cars is huge, there is aot more control. i have driven a snow tyred pug 407 in the snow, and there is alot of grip. more grip than you get with all terrains, i was out with a mate in his 90 with AT's on and they really are not good in this stuff - my little slip slide with the rangey into a ditch showed that to me also.

i think that pretty much covers that lot!

ned25 said:

going round in circles.... so carpy how did you get involved?

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i have a mate in BORG already, and living where i live i dont necessarily attract a loyal following so to speak. land rovers like mine (kinda mean looking, slightly scratched, big tyred off road modified and usually muddy landy) are frowned upon by some people. i know you go alot of places, and many people have a pretty dim view of land rovers, and also their owners, which surprises me as i tend to find that landy drivers generally speaking are half decent drivers, and are usually quite couteous. but yea a mixture of wanting to improve the image of land rovers, helping out people that really need it - and i dont mean the police i mean the elderly, people that are stranded, perhaps injured people and also meeting like minded landy drivers did it for me.

we go laning, have pub meets and what not so its quite good fun, and they are a good bunch from what i have seen

fanatic said:

Wrong, have stated perfect reasonably that the government could do the above easy.

You have tried to suggest that not volunteering is in some way not public spirited-to which I have pointed out a simple solution and given suggestions.

Personally the Government not giving a **** and neighbours not giving a **** about old people is why PC correct is crap.

Oh and I have an old school sense of community

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yea i am not neccessarily arguing with you, in fact i agree. there SHOULD be more funding to vehicles better equipped to deal with this, there should be better planning and what not.

im not doing it for the ooh look i am a volunteer side. Its not the 94 year old isolated womans fault that the government have ****ed up and cant deal with snow, come to think of it it isnt the fault of the bloke who had a stroke in his sitting room up desborough hill in wycombe either.

its not about being PC, its about helping where you can coz the government isnt doing it properly.

I came across the 4x4 network earlier in the year and my first impression was what a great idea it was and how I could really see myself doing this. It seemed to me that I could contribute to the community doing the thing I loved best which is driving the Landy. In addition there was training of various types including off road driving. I was well impressed.

However.

It took me an age to find out any real information, such as expenses etc. My insurance company wasn't keen on the idea but went along with it eventually. I applied to join and waited and waited and waited. I was supposed to have an interview to arrange a CRB check but it just didn't happen. With a CRB check taking anything up to two months it was clear that I was going to be no use to them this winter if they didn't get a move on. This seriously naffed me off as hassle I didn't need.

There was another problem that bothered me greatly. There are several team about and in order to join the other teams would require a long list a requirements to meet first. Such things included a fully off road kitted vehical and recognised training. My car isn't particularly kitted for off road and I definately didn't have the training. Part of the reason I wanted to join was get trained up. With the group I was joining the requirements were a 4x4 and a CB!!!? It didn't add up.

Work was a problem too. Our management were not happy with the idea that I could suddenly get called away, even if it was very occationally. I would have to decline call outs during working hours.

Then the opportunity came up to go to an event that the team was working at. I went along with the intention of collering the chief punkawaller and saying 'interview me'. Before I got that far I was able to observe everything, the people, the cars that they drove. It seemed to me that the cars were more for show with their HiVi stickers and their orange stobe lights, than they were for action. The people it seemed, didn't have a clue what they were doing.

That was the final straw and I walked away and later that day withdraw my application.

carpy said:

The whole why cant police have military land rovers is a tough one. health and safety is the main issue, the police station down the road from me has 2 mint 110's, but they cant use them because noone has taken the required police internal driving test that allows them to drive it.
I said earlier how the other countries cope - better planning, more resources and finances put towards equipment and planning for adverse winter condition, and greater individual preparedness with motorists.

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Sums up what I pointed out and two police 110 parked up is ****ing ridiculous-So At this point I'm going to leave you to it for now.

fanatic said:

Sums up what I pointed out and two police 110 parked up is ****ing ridiculous-So At this point I'm going to leave you to it for now.

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yea i agree, its ridiculous, but its not the fault of the people that are getting affected by it

Darmain said:

I came across the 4x4 network earlier in the year and my first impression was what a great idea it was and how I could really see myself doing this. It seemed to me that I could contribute to the community doing the thing I loved best which is driving the Landy. In addition there was training of various types including off road driving. I was well impressed.

However.

It took me an age to find out any real information, such as expenses etc. My insurance company wasn't keen on the idea but went along with it eventually. I applied to join and waited and waited and waited. I was supposed to have an interview to arrange a CRB check but it just didn't happen. With a CRB check taking anything up to two months it was clear that I was going to be no use to them this winter if they didn't get a move on. This seriously naffed me off as hassle I didn't need.

There was another problem that bothered me greatly. There are several team about and in order to join the other teams would require a long list a requirements to meet first. Such things included a fully off road kitted vehical and recognised training. My car isn't particularly kitted for off road and I definately didn't have the training. Part of the reason I wanted to join was get trained up. With the group I was joining the requirements were a 4x4 and a CB!!!? It didn't add up.

Work was a problem too. Our management were not happy with the idea that I could suddenly get called away, even if it was very occationally. I would have to decline call outs during working hours.

Then the opportunity came up to go to an event that the team was working at. I went along with the intention of collering the chief punkawaller and saying 'interview me'. Before I got that far I was able to observe everything, the people, the cars that they drove. It seemed to me that the cars were more for show with their HiVi stickers and their orange stobe lights, than they were for action. The people it seemed, didn't have a clue what they were doing.

That was the final straw and I walked away and later that day withdraw my application.

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Wot one was that?I suspect there may be some that join just for stickers and a nice shiny hi-vis. My motor was never reliable enough to join one wether i wanted to or not.

id love to join an on call response team (like hundreds of ppl on here) but wud expect ALL costs to be paid.
until this happens i'll just be helping if im passing someone in need

Don't get me wrong I'm all for helping people out and have done so quite a few times. However it seems to me that these groups are just a club for people who want to belong and feel important. Having a sticker and someone to flash your lights at doesn't really turn me on to be honest. And it certainly doesn't bestow some kind of higher status as some poor folks seem to think.

hughesy said:

Don't get me wrong I'm all for helping people out and have done so quite a few times. However it seems to me that these groups are just a club for people who want to belong and feel important. Having a sticker and someone to flash your lights at doesn't really turn me on to be honest. And it certainly doesn't bestow some kind of higher status as some poor folks seem to think.

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idont even have a sticker if you lookat my motor you wouldnt have a clue it was response

as you can see from my pic , in gallery. im part of a mountain rescue team and use my landy for this.

its all unpaid which i dont mind becaus e i get great satisfaction from finding someone dead or alive. its either relief or clouser for the family.

the only problem is we raise all our own funds through colections etc but yet fat **** gordon brown still takes his cut.

anyone that wants to help us keep this money go here

Mrservice - epetition response | Number10.gov.uk

in the last two week alone we have done easy 20 rescues both lowland and highland areas. just in our patch

i havent been on the last few due to been on crutchers but know theres peeps out there doing it.

so all the grief i get for having a landy i remind them of times like this or the floods of 2007 they soon shut up

trbod said:

as you can see from my pic , in gallery. im part of a mountain rescue team and use my landy for this.

its all unpaid which i dont mind becaus e i get great satisfaction from finding someone dead or alive. its either relief or clouser for the family.

the only problem is we raise all our own funds through colections etc but yet fat **** gordon brown still takes his cut.

anyone that wants to help us keep this money go here

Mrservice - epetition response | Number10.gov.uk

in the last two week alone we have done easy 20 rescues both lowland and highland areas. just in our patch

i havent been on the last few due to been on crutchers but know theres peeps out there doing it.

so all the grief i get for having a landy i remind them of times like this or the floods of 2007 they soon shut up

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All respect for MRTs.But thats quite varied compared to 4x4 response.No mountains round here so no need for the MRT

last year we did more rescuses in towns and villages then on the hill, but i see your point i did drift off abit there sorry

trbod said:

last year we did more rescuses in towns and villages then on the hill, but i see your point i did drift off abit there sorry

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so you use your vehicle for the rescues etc?Im assuming alot more training, team building etc forms part of your role.

we do have one team landie and a control vechile which is a sprinter , but i have used mine on jobs yes. yeah train weekly takes bout 8-12 month to become a full team member depending on how much time you can put in and exisitng experience

trbod said:

we do have one team landie and a control vechile which is a sprinter , but i have used mine on jobs yes. yeah train weekly takes bout 8-12 month to become a full team member depending on how much time you can put in and exisitng experience

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similar set up to us up here, takes minimum a year to be trained up in all stuff, so far the only recoverys have been done by boys off there own back, the official call outs have been deliverin meals on wheels, collectin some medical staff from the sticks and gettin them to there work, but then we have 2 foot o the stuff up here, and have for 2 weeks, that said, its winter n its the norm up here.

yes there are the folk who join to feel important n are glory hunters who want all the shouts to be winchin folk n have the cops on the scene, but ya find they get fed up with all the trainin n dissapear.

its the same as everythin else ya will have folk for and against.

am just into my 4th year and still loving the job , shame about all the politicla stuff though. trying to get back to basics and keep out of them though

guess the basic difference is between those of us who volunteer to help keep society running and dont expect any reward ( apart from the warm fuzzy glow of doing something because it's the right thing to do) and those who believe that the super efficient all knowing state can be expected to know all and be all in every situation. Our country is on the whole run by an overworked public sector ( with an overwhelming beaurocracy sitting on its back ) being assisted to paper over the cracks by an enormous volunteer sector - think Mountain rescue, RNLI, St John, Red Cross, Scouts, Guides, HUGE charity sector and namless other public spirited individuals.
and No this is not a party political rant - it dont matter which party wins, government always wins and its stuffed full of egositic arseholes and incompetant dreamers who came up with bright ideas like compulsory competitive tendering, lowest cost bid, and the best of all privitisation. sod the the lot of em Vote monster raving loony at least you know they are nuts.

I went down to a local show last year (the same one as Darmain) and couldn't believe how stuck up the local response members were. One of them even crossed his arms and turned his back on another member of this forum. They all have amber strobes fitted to their vehicles but haven't got a clue when and where they can be used. They were running the offroad course and their ignorance and stupidity really showed. If one of the guys I trained at work did what they were doing (or in many cases NOT doing) they would be in the brown stuff. They had no idea about safety and I wouldn't trust them to operate a tv let alone a landy in adverse weather conditions.

ratty said:

I went down to a local show last year (the same one as Darmain) and couldn't believe how stuck up the local response members were. One of them even crossed his arms and turned his back on another member of this forum. They all have amber strobes fitted to their vehicles but haven't got a clue when and where they can be used. They were running the offroad course and their ignorance and stupidity really showed. If one of the guys I trained at work did what they were doing (or in many cases NOT doing) they would be in the brown stuff. They had no idea about safety and I wouldn't trust them to operate a tv let alone a landy in adverse weather conditions.

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yea theres some people like that out there, but not all response groups are bad. i know a few people in hampshire and they seem like good lads, the guys in BORG generally speaking seem really decent guys also, dont mind sharing a drink with them.