TD5 Starting Problem

MartinK · Jan 15, 2011

I need some help guys. Donre a search, but it seems a different issue to others on here. (This is closest http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f8/starting-problem-125977.html but no resolution is given)

Disco2, TD5, 174k miles, owned by me from new. Regular service (last fuel filter was about 3k miles ago). Been using clean straight diesel recently (never used veg oil, did run some filtered engine oil a while back, but not since new fuel filter). Fuel economy as normal, and no visible smoking. It's running really well.

Drove to Glasgow on Friday. All fine, 60 miles over the M8.

Came out to drive home, wouldn't start. Cranked-over as normal (lively starter motor).

Eventually, I "primed" as if changing the fuel filter, or having run out of fuel. It started.

Also filled-up last night, so it's not a fuel problem. Again, leaving the garage it was a bit flaky starting-up.

Been like that since. Hot or cold. Took several go's this morning and coughed into life when "primed". Stopped the engine for 30 seconds whilst on a long (200 mile) journey this afternoon and the thing was a pig to start again...had to prime it even tho it was fully warmed-up...

Anyone any ideas?

CobraPaul · Jan 15, 2011

Martin, Long shot but I had similar problem and it turned out to be leaking diesel from the green pipe leaving the fuel pump. What happened was overnight the fuel would slowly leak out of the pipe creating an air lock in the fuel lines. I changed the pipe, fairly easy job and the starting issue disapeared. Have a good look around the front edge of the fuel tank on the nearside chassis rail.

landyjay · Jan 15, 2011

is there fuel leaking down the driverside of the engine? there is a fuel regulator there wich leaks and will need priming to start.
also the fuel pump in the tank maybe suspect also sometimes if you prime the system it will start is the pump over noisey (screaching) they get soot in the tank from temp and presure that the fuel system runs at on these td5s
the pipes that run from the fuel tank to the filter to the engine where they go from the tank to filter rub on chasi and leak fuel which u can usualy see all up the back door,
hope this helps good luck

CharlesY · Jan 15, 2011

The symptoms are the classic signs of gas leaking past an injector copper washer, and into the fuel gallery.

Whatever else you do meantime, get a set of five copper injector washers, and five injector O-rings.

It is not a difficult job to do these washers and rings, but EXTREME CARE needs to be taken at all stages to do the job CLEAN.

There are a fair number of good posts about doing this job, and even one by me.

I am quite nearby, about halfway between Glasgow and Edinburgh.

CharlesY

MartinK · Jan 16, 2011

Thanks for the input gents. As soon as it's light enough I'll go and do some research on the drive and report back.

I can hear the fuel pump, but mine's always been noisy since it was replaced about a year ago (especially when it's minus 16). There are no immediate signs of a fuel leak (I already checked the filter area and it's dry). I'll have a good look at the rest of the pipework this morning, then it sounds like CharlesY's job is looming!

Cheers

CharlesY · Jan 16, 2011

NOISY fuel pump .... usually air or gas in the fuel. Most of the noise actually arises in that crazy fuel filter in the right rear wheel bay.

For all the cost of 5 copper washers, five O-rings and an afternoon of careful clean working on the injectors, I suggest that is among the first things to do.

CharlesY

MartinK · Jan 16, 2011

Firstly a big THANKS to those who have offered advice.

OK. Just had a good look over. No sign of Diesel leak anywhere. Checked the tank, fuel filter area, and taken the acoustic engine cover off.

Cleaned the area around the Fuel Pressure Regulator, and can't see any leaks. Wasn't expecting a big leak because the MPG seems normal, and no unusual smell of diesel.

Looking like CharselY's diagnosis is right.

Problem is I'm heading off to work "down South" most of the week, and got a 130 mile journey on Friday. Can't see how I can take this on myself (would do it today if I had the parts (it's a dry and above-freezing day for once

). Was hoping it was the regulator or something that I could order-up do in an evening.

I'll call my local Indie tomorrow and see if he can take the car whilst I am away.

MartinK · Jan 16, 2011

CharlesY said:
NOISY fuel pump .... usually air or gas in the fuel. Most of the noise actually arises in that crazy fuel filter in the right rear wheel bay.

The fuel pump has been noisy since it was replaced about a year ago. The car's often in Aviemore - we've had minus 18 up there - and it REALLY whines then! It doesn't seem to have got any noisier over the last 3 days since it became a bad-starter... I replaced the fuel filter about 3-4 months ago and that didn't make any difference (the old filter was actually leaking at the seal, and that one had been on for about 8 months).

CharlesY · Jan 16, 2011

MartinK said:
The fuel pump has been noisy since it was replaced about a year ago. The car's often in Aviemore - we've had minus 18 up there - and it REALLY whines then! It doesn't seem to have got any noisier over the last 3 days since it became a bad-starter... I replaced the fuel filter about 3-4 months ago and that didn't make any difference (the old filter was actually leaking at the seal, and that one had been on for about 8 months).

The filter leaking at the seal is often because the OTHER seal, the SMALL CENTRAL ONE, was not noticed, and now there may be TWO in there or even THREE, which stops the filter from seating properly on the main O-ring.

I had THREE small seals is mine once!

In TD5, it is VITAL when changing the fuel filter, to make sure that when you take off the filter, you also remove the smaller O-ring which almost always stays on the filter head where you don't notice it.

Then you fit a new filter complete with new O-rings, the big main one and the smaller central one. Now you have TWO small ones in place. Bad.

CharlesY

MartinK · Jan 20, 2011

Thanks all.

CharseY was indeed correct. My local Indie fitted new Injector Seat Washers. Starts first time again now. Only collected it last (11pm) night so not done a longer run yet, but it certainly seems to have fixed the immediate problem.

The fuel pump's priming noise now also seems quieter.

Parts:
O rings - ERR7004
Copper washers - ERR6417

And 2 hours labour.

Fingers crossed it's all OK when I give it a long (130 mile) run tomorrow.

paul fletcher · Jan 20, 2011

Hi gents,

Just to add weight to CharlesY's correct diagnosis my disco displayed the exact same symptoms and RAPIDLY went downhill. Same parts, same fix.

Everyone, but EVERYONE was telling me "fuel pump's knackered" but after ages trawling on here my gut instinct told me to try the washers and o rings first. £8.58 for parts!

Hopefully more people will catch this thread and save themselves hours removing and cleaning the bloody fuel pump and changing filters!!!

CharlesY · Jan 20, 2011

MartinK said:
Thanks all.

CharseY was indeed correct. My local Indie fitted new Injector Seat Washers. Starts first time again now. Only collected it last (11pm) night so not done a longer run yet, but it certainly seems to have fixed the immediate problem.

The fuel pump's priming noise now also seems quieter.

Parts:
O rings - ERR7004
Copper washers - ERR6417

And 2 hours labour.

Fingers crossed it's all OK when I give it a long (130 mile) run tomorrow.

LandyZone strikes again, and not a penny to main stealer!

CharlesY

Well? Did you get there and back?

mccurds · Mar 29, 2012

I had a similar problem which seals and washers cured but only for a few days and then the problem started again. Another set of seals and washers later all is well. The moral of the story is as Charles says
EXTREME CARE AND CLEANESS will save you doing it twice like me.

TD5 Starting Problem

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