(yet another) side project: dualies

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DastardlyDan

DastardlyDan

Active Member
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287
Something I've contemplated since before I even owned my hippo - fitting transit dual steelies



Was originally just going to be for the rears, with the hippo converted to RWD, but I'm liking the idea of a haldex setup... so maybe a full on set of FOUR dualies could work well for offroading? Turned+milled steel adaptors (solidworks says around 7kg each) means it's just a simple bolt on affair.



Does anyone know any reason why a total of 8 wheels, would be naff for offroading/etc? Or could it offer vastly improved grip?
 
Bearing stress
Transmission breakage as more grip
Unsprung suspension weight
It'll be fine lol
 
we're not racing, so unsprung weight doesn't matter all that much. Plus it'll still be lighter than a defender axle with hefty tyres, lol

As long as we're not tractor pulling, the drivetrain will be fine (the PG1 in the FL1 is the strongest type made, and the lower spec versions survive turbo'd T series levels of abuse)

Bearings are cheap :lol:
 
DastardlyDan said:
we're not racing, so unsprung weight doesn't matter all that much. Plus it'll still be lighter than a defender axle with hefty tyres, lol

As long as we're not tractor pulling, the drivetrain will be fine (the PG1 in the FL1 is the strongest type made, and they survive blown T series levels of abuse)

Bearings are cheap :lol:
Click to expand...

unspung weight does matter
 
it'll be perfectly road legal (and declared, I may add) just a smidge heavy :lol:

But that's not the point of this thread tbh
 
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What's the actual width of the wheels/tyres?

I could see them getting wedged in ruts, which would rather defeat the purpose.

Similarly, what's their diameter? Bigger diameter tyres sound great for offroading and will give added ground clearance, but without low-range they make it tougher on the car.

I'm also not so sure the Haldex is a great off-road unit. Its electrical and based on clutches - so no good for prolonged use - unless you want to stop and take in the scenery every no and then while it cools down. You also have the same need as when running a VCU - same tyres needed on the front - unless you gear everything to match the tyres.
 
I'm not familiar with the internals of a PG1 - but I do know that in FWD spec it has a final drive (reduction) in there which the 4WD Freelander variant doesn't because its in the IRD.

So does this mean there's space in there where you could possibly add a high-low range gearing? Assuming all the mechanicals could handle it.
 
I say go ahead and do it.
could you let us know how you get it out the **** when it snaps
or when you get pulled over by the old bill
 
I'd love to know why having pcd adaptors, with different wheels will "get me pulled". I've driven a lot of strange cars, which have gotten me pulled over because the police were genuinely curious, and interested:



PG1 in the hippo still has the same fwd style "final drive" (it's actually a lower ratio compared to the fwd FD, and a few derv tuners use it for lower rpms) so that's a no-go I'm afraid. I was thinking if it would be possible to replace the shaft that feeds FROM the PG1, into the IRD, with a spur gear, which then led to a hi/low gearset, like the LT230 transfer case has.. then back down to the gear which usually lives on the END of the long output.

With my amazeballs skillz, here's a pic of what I mean:

stock setup inside the IRD:



Then, throw on some extra gears (I'm sure it'll be that easy... right?)


With the LH gearset engaged (low range) the power would take this path:


High range will take this path:



Downsides:
1) gears cost a bomb to machine
2) the whole IRD casing would need to be remade
3) there's no space for it anyway :lol:
 
DastardlyDan said:
I'd love to know why having pcd adaptors, with different wheels will "get me pulled". I've driven a lot of strange cars, which have gotten me pulled over because the police were genuinely curious, and interested:



PG1 in the hippo still has the same fwd style "final drive" (it's actually a lower ratio compared to the fwd FD, and a few derv tuners use it for lower rpms) so that's a no-go I'm afraid. I was thinking if it would be possible to replace the shaft that feeds FROM the PG1, into the IRD, with a spur gear, which then led to a hi/low gearset, like the LT230 transfer case has.. then back down to the gear which usually lives on the END of the long output.

With my amazeballs skillz, here's a pic of what I mean:

stock setup inside the IRD:



Then, throw on some extra gears (I'm sure it'll be that easy... right?)


With the LH gearset engaged (low range) the power would take this path:


High range will take this path:



Downsides:
1) gears cost a bomb to machine
2) the whole IRD casing would need to be remade
3) there's no space for it anyway :lol:
Click to expand...

wtf is that
 
I love how (once again) the ONLY person giving actual input on the idea, is GrumpyGel..


and "wtf is that", well you quoted my entire reply... so I'm going to say, it's a reply to GrumpyGel
 
If you dual the front, I would suggest beefing up the steering rack mounts - they are pretty flimsy as standard and I would think there will be a fair bit of extra force on the rack, especially off road.

I dunno....I think the extra rolling resistance and grip might be a bit too much and you run the risk of splitting CV joints and stripping splines.....but then how much more would it be than a set of large knobbly AT tyres?
I think you will definately have to get used to changing clutches.


I reckon this post will be another six-page job with everyone foaming at the mouth because someone has the audacity to do something other than adding a 40mm lift kit, too many spotlights, BFGoodrich tyres and a "one life, live it" sticker.
 
As you say, no space in the IRD for all those new goodies, and no space where its layed out in the pic cos the engine's in the way - but plenty of space above the case - 'all' you've got to do is extend the case upwards :) ... oh and find a way of getting those new gears on the main shaft, and not fouling the crown/pinion gear while your at it. Lovely idea, but I don't think its going to happen.

The 'simple' solution must presumably be to replace the IRD with a back-to-front rear diff to drive the front wheels - then power both the diffs with hydraulic motors powered by a hydraulic pump hooked up to the gearbox. Either 2wd high and 4wd low or 4wd high with some valves to go low. Sorted. As with cutting gears though, hydraulics are very expensive to play with. Also not particularly efficient - but regen possibilities.

dave21478 said:
I reckon this post will be another six-page job with everyone foaming at the mouth because someone has the audacity to do something other than adding a 40mm lift kit, too many spotlights, BFGoodrich tyres and a "one life, live it" sticker.
Click to expand...

lol, yeh, there's a bit of that here - but thankfully nowhere near as much as on the Facebook group that is just getting so bloody boring.
 
dave21478 said:
with everyone foaming at the mouth because someone has the audacity to do something other than adding a 40mm lift kit, too many spotlights, BFGoodrich tyres and a "one life, live it" sticker.
Click to expand...

Once I get this turbo rebuilt (dodgy oil seals, it ****es out everywhere) and slap it on, I'll be up around the 170Bhp mark.. so I'm thinking about getting two of those "you can go fast, I can go anywhere" stickers, and changing it to "you can go fast, I can go anywhere fast" :lol:


And yes, nobody else seems to realise slapping on monster tyres+wheels will induce similar strains as double width wheels. And our steering rack is far weaker than the defender setup, so that will always hold us back.

I'm not sure hydraulics would be suitable for anything but a pure offroading beast - but you never know, there may be some exotic hydraulic setup that's fine with low-speed sheer power, and high speed running. No doubt it'd cost as much as a house however :lol:




Either way.. bidding on some partially scrap transit wheels on fleabay atm. Just so I can get the offset properly measured for the pcd adapters :)
 
From what I've read from peeps who tried the biggest issue with the FL1 offroad is the lack of low ratio box burning out the clutch (cause you gotta keep slipping it) so unless you can magic all them gears into a casing and then magic it onto the car, in a way which actually works, the double wheels is just a daft idea.


















But hey I'm all for daft ideas so give it a go and put the pics up. :p
 
The only low ratio Freelander 1's I know of are FL1's on a disco chassis, or heavily modified FL1 to allow the disco gearbox/engine set-up.
 
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